From ou statehouse studio in Montgomery.

I'm Todd Stacy, welcome to Capitol Journal.

The building was busy this week as lawmaker gathered for a series of budget hearings to review the state's fiscal situation.

Ahead of the legislative session that starts in January.

Several state agencies were asked to present details about their budget outlooks and answer questions from senators and representatives on the general Fund Ways and Means committees.

Chief Legislative Budget Officer Kirk Fulford offered a detailed assessment of the state's general fund.

According to the latest receipts, revenues for this year and next year's budget look healthy.

However, over the longer term, the outlook isn't so rosy.

That's because the general fund has been propped up in recent years by extraordinary payouts from interest on the Alabama Trust Fund and other state savings accounts.

Fulford says those revenues won't continue once federal relief dollars are exhausted and interest rates fall.

I'll stop just short of calling i the good, the bad and the ugly, but it's getting close to it.

So here's here's the good of both budgets right now in great shape.

I know the ATF is not your primary concern.

However, I wanted to mention the fact that the ETF is growing at 3.26%.

Most of that growth is income tax related.

Sales tax is limping along mostly because consumer spending has declined over the past couple of years and has not elevated again.

Consumer spending makes up two thirds of our economy, so it's really important.

General fund 2.75 billion yea to date and collections 3.22%.

Now that is well above what our estimates are.

Darn.

Federal Reserve, has, has, punch just in the gut on that.

But I mean, unfortunately, things that sound good to you and things that sound great for the econom have the inverse relationship.

On our general fund, we need 200, roughly $242 millio over the next couple of months to fund the budget.

Last year, we got, $712 millio over the last couple of months.

So we're going to end the year with a positive balance.

We had anticipated on an ending.

Balance will have a larger ending balance than what we anticipated.

I know there'll be a lot of people excited to see you about that and plans to to help you try to allocate that.

Much of the discussion during the budget hearings was about the impact of the One Big Beautiful Bill act passed by Congress and signed by the president in July.

That law includes significant cuts.

And as states to assume more financial responsibility for programs Bo offered.

The state's new Medicaid commissioner said Alabama won't be as heavily impacted by the cuts as states that expanded their Medicaid programs.

On July 4th, the president signed this piece of legislation into law.

And I know there's been intense media coverage of this bill.

Some coverage has focused on Medicaid programs in the Medicaid section of the bill and the possibility of cuts to federal Medicaid funding.

Obviously, that's a concer when you hear stuff like that, because people automatically start thinking, well, if there's cuts to federal funding, you're going to have to fin other sources for that funding.

But I want to reassure you at this time that after our analysis, with the help of our external stakeholders, also national associations that we're part of, we do not anticipate Alabama being one of the states whose Medicaid funding is going to be overly affected, Bob, throughout the spring and summer, as this bill went through both chambers of Congress we paid attention to the bill.

We paid attention to the comments and the different versions that were being passed.

And we've determined that most of the changes in the final bill will impact Medicaid agencies that are situated differently than those in Alabama.

So, for example, a lot of coverage you probably heard on the provider tax language in the bill.

Now, while Alabama may not be able to create new provider taxes or raise current provider taxes in the future, the funding reduction portion of the bill related to the provider taxes will not apply to Alabama, as Alabama is not an expansion state.

Therefore, our statute should remain relatively unaffected.

Likewise, the state directed payment portion that you've probably heard about, they affect the managed care states.

Alabama is a fee for service state, so it should not affect the stat The One Big Beautiful Bill ac also contains a $50 billion fund to help support rural hospitals, and officials estimate that Alabama could see as much as $500 million over the next five years.

The distribution of those funds has not yet been worked out, but Department of Mental Health Commissioner Kim Boswell told lawmakers that rural mental health facilities and opioid treatment centers qualif for those funds under the law.

Many of you have heard about this.

Some of you heard about it in D.C., some of you heard about it at BCA.

And again, Kurt mentioned it this morning.

It is part of the big beautiful Bill.

And I think one of the most important things for you guys to know from my department is rural health facility definitions do include community mental health centers, abuse treatment programs, and certified community behavioral health clinics.

And so that bill does include services offered by those entities.

Perhaps the high point of the legislative budget hearings this week was an update on the construction of the new state House Legislative Services Agency director, Osney Latham told lawmakers.

The new building is on time and under budget, which was music to their ears.

Capitol Journal's Randy Scott has that story.

As we know, we moved into this building.

Our predecessors moved into this building in 1985 on a temporary basis while the Capitol was being renovated.

And yet, here we are, 40 years later, still still using this space.

Legislative Services Director Anthony Latham speaks to a full room of legislators and citizens about the progress of Alabama's new statehouse.

We started exploring the ide of building a new state House, which, of course had been done a number of times, over those four decades as well.

And I think we were able to reach a really good partnership with the Retirement Systems of Alabama.

The process began in 2023 to build a new state house, complete with upgrades.

We all know we have a pretty significant parking shortage.

In the Capitol complex.

We were taking up the largest of our parking facilities in order to build this new building.

So we knew we were going to have to deal with parking in some way.

And we're going to have to have to build a parking deck.

Let's give you a perspective of things.

This white building beside me this is the current state House.

It's been the current state House now for a few decades.

The gray structure in th background going up behind us.

That would be the new statehouse.

Now, once the new state House is completed, the older state House will be torn down and used for green space.

But that's not the only problem supporters of this project wanted to accomplish.

They hope the new statehouse does a good job of solving another problem being the people's House.

You might recall, in my lifetime here, we've had at least three major floods where I've been able to look out and see cars floating in our parking lot and in our parking deck.

I've seen snakes in the basement of this building as it was waist deep in water.

And so so we've got a number of improvements that have to be made, a list of many changes lawmakers agree wit as well as future adjustments.

Just really appreciate the focus on the work that was done, on the safety of our students that visit this new complex.

I mean, moving that that site just worries me to that.

These kids get dropped out here on a, on a, you know, three and four lane road.

And you know, the two that in consideration move them over there on less traveled road got some buffers in place.

So I just really appreciate the work that was done there.

We have our obligation that we need to confront.

Coming up in January is going to b looking at another 75 million, split between the ETF and general fund.

And, we've got to look at putting a new line in the budget, basically for the operation of the upcoming building so that when we get in, we'll have the money to function there.

The new building is set to open for business in January of 2027, complete with upgrades and making sure they're keeping the people in mind.

Anybody who's been in this building knows that.

Unfortunately, it's, hard to get into.

So that affects a number of our citizens who want to participate, who might have mobility issues or other disability issues.

In addition to that, most of our committee room spaces are very small.

So it is not unusual to have to turn away members of the public who have made the trek to Montgomery, for a committee meeting, because the room just won't accommodate them.

And so all of that get addressed in the new building, as well as a number of ongoing issues in this building, including mold and other health concerns as well at the statehouse.

Randy Scott, Capital Journal, thank you, Randy, and I'll be talking in more detail about the budget with Senate General Fund Chairman Greg Albritton later in the show.

Also happening in the state House this week was a meetin about higher education funding and specifically whether state College's appropriation should be tied to performance.

Capital Journal's Jeff Sanders has that story.

For decades, Alabama's public universities have received funding from the state with little connection to performance.

But Thursday at the state House, lawmakers began a series of meetings exploring a new approach.

Outcomes based funding.

Senator Arthur Awe of Decatur who chairs the Senate Education Budget Committee, say tying dollars to student success could better align higher education with Alabama's economic needs.

This is a way for the legislature.

Working with the institutions to, better, fit the needs of our stat as defined by those elected here in the legislature, to help move our state down the road.

House Budget Chair Danny Garrett of Trussville agrees.

He says with Alabama' labor force participation rate among the lowest in the nation, colleges have to be a part of the solution.

So we really don't want to try to run the institutions.

We're not trying to tell them what to do, but we're basically saying, look, here's what our needs are as a state.

Tell us in the institution, they're all be different.

What how can you meet that?

What will you do?

And if they deliver, then we can, provide additional funding.

Thursday's meeting included a presentation from policy experts on how other states measure results.

That includes everything from graduation and transfer rates to degrees in high demand fields to wages earned after graduation.

Representative Anthony Daniels, the House minority leader, urged caution, though, saying any plan must consider students circumstances.

When looking at outcomes economically.

Are we focusing on higher paying jobs?

And if we're focusing on highe paying jobs is going to require the modernization of equipment at institutions, is going to require the modernizations of buildings and facility upgrades, right, to be able to accommodate the new economy, especially from a gig economy standpoint.

Here are the areas that we're going to be recruiting in.

So we need you to produce more students in these areas that we can retain in the state, to support the workforce that we're trying to recruit to the state.

And while lawmakers weigh options, higher education leaders say universities are already making a powerful impact.

Gordon Stone, with the Higher Education Partnership, released the following statement.

Quote, as the state begins the process of understanding outcomes based funding, Alabama's public universities represent a $27 billion contribution to the economy, touching every city and county, end quote.

Outcomes base funding is not new nationwide, according to higher ed officials, more than 20 states already apply it to four year universities, and nearly 30 do so for community colleges.

In fact, Alabama's two year system has use performance metric since 2019, and lawmakers sa they want to take action sooner rather than later.

We're hopeful that we can pass a framework for this fund, maybe establish a fund.

We may not have all o the pieces for that set up yet.

Our goal would be to try to do something this session.

Now, funding for all of this would likely come from the same reserve account used earlier this yea for the K through 12 Raise act.

But for now, these meetings ar just the beginning of a debate that could likely reshap the funding of higher education in Alabama.

Reporting from the statehouse in Montgomery.

I'm Jeff Sanders for Capitol Journal.

Thank you, Jeff, and Senate Education Budget Committee Chairman Arthur, or will join me later in the show to talk more about education funding.

This week Alabama confirmed its first case of the measles in more than 20 years, according to the Alabama Department of Public Health.

It was a young child in north Alabama who had recently travele overseas and was not vaccinated.

Well, health officials say the risk of the measles spreading is low.

The case comes at a time when vaccines are under the microscope.

Across the country, outbreaks of preventable diseases are on the rise as some parents have chose to delay or avoid immunizations.

Doctor Karen Landers of the Alabama Department of Public Health, says parents should rethink their attitudes about the measles vaccine.

So I would remind parents, first of all, this is not a benign disease.

A lot of providers have not seen it.

So there can be a delay in diagnosis.

And this is a very safe vaccine.

So please talk to your health care providers.

Please talk to your doctors, to your nurse practitioners, to your pharmacist and discuss this.

And you might want to rethink your attitude about this vaccine.

Again all vaccines are not the same.

The effectiveness is not the same.

The development is not the same.

But this one particular vaccine is absolutely lifesaving and certainly can reduce a wealth of severe complication.

Turning now to Washington, where Congress remains on recess, allowing members to spen more time back in their states but awaiting them when the return is another funding fight and the expiration of health care tax credits.

Capitol Journal's Alex Engle sat down with some of the Alabama congressional delegation before the recess to get their take on what's in store.

Governmen funding runs out on October 1st, leaving lawmakers little time to reach a deal when they return to Washington on Tuesday.

Most of those spending bills have yet to receive a vote on the House or Senate floor, and some have yet to get out of committee.

In the House, the largest nondefense spending bill that funds the Health and Education department has yet to be released.

Congressman Robert Aderholt i the chair of that subcommittee.

What we're trying to do i look for waste, fraud and abuse.

Where and where there's some Python is duplicated in some other agency or department, and that' what we're always looking for.

While House appropriator have mostly stuck to President Donald Trump's proposed of budget cuts in their bills, the Senate has mostly rebuffed them.

But the House did reject cuts to NASA funding.

That's a priority for Congressman Dale strong, a new appropriator.

I was pretty frustrated with the, the first, the budget numbers that we saw originally.

But again, that' why this job is, early mornings and late nights that is fighting for, your communities, but also fighting for what's right for space exploration and national security.

I think that the evidence was revealed.

A stopgap funding bill looks likely to keep the government open past the deadline.

As lawmakers work on an overall deal.

Health care will also be top of mind in the second half of the year, after Republicans passed Medicaid cut and the new tax law, they now have to conten with the expiration of the ACA enhanced tax credit coming at the end of the year.

Alabamians enrolled through the ACA marketplace could see their rates rise by about 20% next year.

We need to be doing everything that we can to make it more affordable.

And by removing these, this form of, premium reductions, it does not get us any closer to that.

Congressman Shamari figure has made health care a key issue during his first months in office.

But Republican have also signaled a willingness to at least look at the potentia of addressing those tax credits.

Congressman Gary Palmer, who sits on the Energy and Commerce Committee, says he'll wait and see what comes of the issue when Congress returns.

I'll see what we do later on i regard to the to the, subsidies on Obamacare and hanging over all of Congress's to do list over the next few months is the Jeffrey Epstein probe.

Reporting on Capitol Hill, Alex Engle, Capitol Journal.

Thank you Alex.

We'll be right back with this week's guests.

You can watch past episodes of Capital Journal online any time at Alabama Public Television's website.

aptv.org.

Click on the online video tab on the main page.

You can also connect with Capital Journal and link to past episodes on Capital Journal's Facebook page.

Melville Archeological Park contains the remains of one of the largest prehistoric Native American settlements in the United States, founded around 1120.

Melville was located o the banks of the Black Warrior River, 14 mile south of present day Tuscaloosa.

A thriving ceremonial and political center of Mississippian culture.

The site was occupie for more than three centuries, but was abandoned by the early 16th century.

Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Do you want to be next?

State Senator Greg Albritton, chairman of the Senate General Fund budget Committee.

Senator thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me.

I've had a long week.

A big, long weekend of budget hearings will get to some of the the finer points in a minute, but this is a relatively new tradition that you've started with.

You know, asking agencies to come in not in January, not in February, but they're in the fall to come and explain maybe how their budgets are looking and and their funding requests and things like that, to talk about why you've started this relatively new tradition, education.

And yes, it's it's been a, a you have to engage pulling people in, both legislators and agencies from the normal work days to come in and have a discussions.

But we need more time to learn and to be able to openly discuss matters that we don't always have when we're under pressure during the January time frame, or when you're in session.

So this gives us a greater opportunity to take a greater look at a deeper dive.

If there's a term, to invent questions and things in a way, and to get to know each other better.

Especially important when the budget situation is like it is.

And we'll get to that in a minute.

Let's start with the happier news.

And that's the new state House.

Ask me later and said it's on time and in somewhat under budget.

That's got to be music to your ears.

It is.

Glad to see that it's progressing.

And some of us were able to go and get a physical, tour of the facility at this stage.

Earlier this week.

It's coming along pretty well.

Yeah.

We got to tour our little part of the building the other day, and it's just going to offer us so much more capability in terms of serving the public.

Really excited about the new state House.

But that was the fun news.

Yes it was.

The rest of the budget, you know, the rest of the budget presentations, especially coming from Kir Fulford, were pretty concerning.

I think I saw one headline, A cautionary tale looking at some of these, you know, kind of good budget years really propped up by, the returns on, on our funds.

Right.

The return of interest on funds, but that's going away.

So talk about your 30,000ft level.

You know what you're sayin in terms of how the general fund is going to look two, three years out.

The biggest message that I think we came through is, is we don't know.

There's a lot that's left unsaid or undiscovered at this point, because of regulations and also new laws coming out of the feds.

So that's the biggest issue, is we just don't know.

And when you don't know, you got to plan for the worst case scenario.

Now, some peopl came away that they were afraid or something, but, that's no the message we wanted to send.

We are more prepared now in Alabama than we've ever been to dea with challenges that come to us.

We've got more savings.

We've got better policies, we've got bette means of handling these matters.

But it's still going to take us being careful in how we deal with the resources.

I was struck by one of your comments because you were saying it's don't look at it as a, as a revenue problem.

You know, the revenue is going to be what it's going to be.

We've got to control spending.

Correct.

That was an interesting comment.

Talk about what how you reach that conclusion.

Well, look, I'm an old man, okay?

It it is never a matter of what you bring in.

It is how much you spend is always, whether public or private.

And that's where we got.

And that's the place where we can control things.

That's where we in the legislature have the greatest control is how much we spend.

If we do not control that, the revenue will be away from us quickly in a bad way.

Well, because everybody's going to come with the request because there are needs.

I'm thinking about, mental health.

I'm thinking about corrections.

You know, lots of agencie that are that have more cost due to, you know, prices rising, things like that.

So, you know, is that are they going to be disappointed in the next couple of years with some of these.

Some will be, some will be, yeah.

We've got to make some tough decisions because we've got to control that.

And one of the issues that that was showing it on the revenue side is where the revenue is coming from.

And so all the hearing that we've had the past two days dealing with, not a single one came in that said, oh, we're going to have more money coming in.

Every one of them is talking about how they're going to have less revenue coming in, and that's concerning.

So we've got to deal with that.

And I wanted everyone to be aware that we've got to deal with that and the seriousness of it.

I was also struck by this sea change from the federal government.

Go back to the pandemic and the federal government couldn't give away enough money.

You know, not trillions to two states specifically propping up budgets.

I mean and had to spend it and all this.

Now it's a complete flip.

Congress is saying not only we're not going to pass down all this money, we want to to control more of o some of these shared programs, specifically Snap.

Talk about that as a state budget chairman.

The the rapid sea change from flowing money from the stat from from the federal government to actually now they're going to claw some of that back.

Let's give you an example from today, public health.

Public health came in and mentioned that there were several grants and programs that they had that were ongoing, this year.

And all of a sudden they get notice from the feds on March 24th and said, this money is going away.

That's $175 millio that they had already budgeted, that they're already engage in, that they do not have now.

And that's the just had to stop that program.

Now, that's in this year.

That's right.

Now carry forward.

We've already passed.

The budget's going to take place on October 1st.

And that money was budgeted for that one.

That's going to be a shortfall there too, based partly off of what they were suppose to get from the fed.

Precisely.

So and we'll keep in mind that with public health, 88% of their budgets federal money.

So that's going to have a significant effect.

And, one of the members leaned over to me when that was stated and said, we can't make that up.

And he's correct.

We can't.

So it's good that they've stopped it.

Now, that's just one sea change, if you will.

That's immediate.

And there's been others like that and there's going to be more.

Well I'm thinking about snap and how the, the on big beautiful bill requires the the error rate to get down or else the risk funding.

But what I heard from that hearing was that you're not going to get the error rate down to that, whatever the number is.

So we were looking at a budget cut there too.

What's the what's the solution there?

Is that possible to to do enough to satisfy the feds?

Like as sometimes what the fed does is political and not reality, but the politics becomes reality.

For instance.

Our error rate is the lowest in the southeast, and, more than half the country.

We are better than eight point some odd percent.

However those that have a higher rate, 25% or so they get to delay any problem.

They don't have a problem for two more years.

So as we were discussing, is it better for us to try to work to get our rate lower?

And take that risk, or do we get our rate higher and avoid the risk?

Goodness gracious.

Now, I'm not that that was somewhat facetious, but it does show the point of the the catch 22 that we're often caught in because of the politics on the federal level.

We get caught in.

Right.

Didn't thin it was interesting down at BCA because you ha the federal delegation up there.

Most of them the Republicans kind of touting the one big beautiful bill with an audience full of state lawmakers looking at each other like, I don't know about some some of these things aren't aren't going to work.

Was I wrong?

Cartoon.

Retro?

Well, but I'm glad that y'all had these hearings to put it all out there so that, like I said, come January, nobody's shocked by what's what's actually going on.

Like I said, we're going to be ready and able to deal with these matters.

But unless we're prepared and have the mindset that of where we're headed, we'll be, starting off cold with these hearings.

We have a better feel for it.

We know where we go in the we can discuss this in the next few months, and we can get a better ide of where and how we can do it.

Absolutely.

One agency that was not included in these hearings, I guess it was scheduling kind of things, was the Department of Corrections.

The reason I mentioned it is it is a huge, huge part of the general fund budget cost have gone, you know, really u due to the prison construction.

Correct.

So what can you tell me about their budget outlook?

I imagine we're getting closer and closer to Elmore County.

Are they, you know are these new prisons on track?

Are we going to be able to afford them, understanding that there are concerns in the future of the general fund?

Yes.

Now, first off, be aware that we have, been successful.

As far as the funding for the prisons, both the prisons that we have, we have established the funding there.

We've put in the, the bills that that allow us to the, bonding authority and the savings and such that we have we are well prepare to get both of those constructed and built.

Okay.

That's going to be a strain or problem right now.

We see that as a almost a done deal.

We've got to get it built.

Elmore is getting completed.

It'll be, finished here in the next few months in the spring.

Late spring.

We should be moving people in and we hope to be able to get, Escambia started, very soon.

I hope.

That's my issue.

I'm pushing them to get started.

The sooner we get started, the better off will be.

In cost in other way.

So that's where we're knocking heads.

Now keep knocking Those is so we can get it done.

One of the things that was part of the, you know, reasoning behin constructing these new prisons is that the old, dilapidated ones are costing so much in deferred maintenance and things like that.

Will we once these prisons are open, even the first one in Elmore, will we start seeing some of those cost savings in terms of not havin to keep up these old facilities?

Not right away.

That's not going to be an immediate, but it will be, because when you get moving, you got to move.

You can't.

It's not like moving your family in a U-Haul thing.

It's going to be a gradual matter.

It's going to take some time to get a moved in.

And we've got some overflow and some, overlap.

I should say that's going to be involved.

But we'll get that done and then get the the Escambia on built in the same process there.

But once both of them are built, then we can get rid of some of those like fountain that's there.

And fountain will come down completely.

And and we will be able to handle more people, with less manpower with greater control and greater protections, and greater safety than we ever have.

Now, keep in min that will only be less than 50% of the prison population, bu it'll be the worst of the 50%.

So I think we're going to see I hate to say that the governor is going to save money because they rarely do, but it will be able to stabilize the cost and stabilize, the safety factors for both the inmates and the officers.

Well, that's why I ask because that's the way it was kind of pitched.

So that's our job to follow up on.

Oh for sure.

Yeah.

Look we're out of time.

Thanks so much for your time and for having these budget hearings.

We appreciate the transparency and the our ability to ask questions of our state leaders, to include you and agency leaders and everybody down the line.

So thanks again for your time.

No.

Thank you.

Appreciat getting this out to the public.

We'll be right back.

Alabama Public Television is your place for quality educational services.

Free professional development for educators and childcare providers with access to free, curriculum aligned videos, lesson plans and instructional resources with PBS Learning Media and all the PBS kids programs, parents know and trust.

Learn something new every da with Alabama Public Television.

Visit us at AP tv.org/education to learn more.

You're watching Alabama Public Television celebrating 70 years of service to Alabama.

Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Joining me next is state senator, author or chairman of the Senate Education Budget Committee.

Mr. chairman, thanks for making the time.

Thank you Tom.

Good to be with you.

Well your general fund counterparts were having all the fun.

If you want to count it fun this week with all their budget hearings and everything.

Of course, you all had a hearing on the Raise act.

I'll get to that in a minute.

But there was so much talk about the general fund and some concerns there.

I wanted to ask you, just in general about the Education Trust Fund.

How is it looking going into this budgeting year?

It's going to be challenging, quite frankly, perhaps not as challenging as the general fund budget will be, but, we've got some real, costs that we're going to have to deal with.

One of those being our pick up or, health insurance plan for educators.

The costs there are going up substantially.

Hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars.

And, so that's going to have we're going to have to find funding for that then.

As everyone knows, it's an election year.

So the expected in there some times for, for a raise particularly importan on the education side because, unlike general fund employees or state employees, they don't get automatic step raises.

Now, teachers get a 1% raise, in the salary matrix.

But your cafeteria workers, your custodians and others, you know, receptionists, etc.. Others in the, education world, unless we give a raise, from the legislature or the from, of course, with Governor Ivey, they get, you know, nothing.

As far as no increase.

So that's something, you know we're going to have to look at because there was no raise in the current year's budget.

And, so that's that'll be on the table for sure.

And then, you look at, a small increase in the retirement syste and house and then our retirees, they, you know, with their pension plan, there are no Colas.

And we've had that conversatio before, but tradition has been we try to do a bonus.

We try to do something for our retirees, every so often.

So that' also going to be on the table.

And we're going to have to to deal with it.

Then you have the ordinary cost that we have, with the Numeracy Act and pre-K is, kind of exploding again with higher deman for classrooms across the state.

So I'm sure that's going to go up.

So all that to say, it's going to be a challenge when revenues, not, you know, it's not a blowout year as far as the money that will have to appropriate.

Yeah.

Sounds like a kind of similar situation.

The costs are going up.

The cost of just normal state government is going up.

Thank you for sharing that.

And we'll we'll go more in depth now because it's going to be a kind of a shortened process with the legislature starting in Januar and that election year.

Right.

That's correct.

Usually the mentality is come in, do the budgets, do you know, take care of whatever business is is necessary then members usually want to go campaign and, get on with, with that back home and not, you know, waste time in Montgomery, you know, want to be here at the, the legislature or whatever.

Waste time in Montgomery.

All right.

But you don't want to be here in May when.

That's correct.

And, you know, the time with the clock would run out well before May because we are starting in January, as you say.

Let's talk about the raise that you all had.

Jeff reported on.

You're hearing this wee with the consultants and kind of getting some feedback there.

I wanted to ask you, just in general, I mean, it's a really monumental law that you'll pass this year.

And as you've said before, it's going to take a long time to really see the benefits of this, talking about, you know, really modernizing the funding formula to account for some of the struggling areas, or just areas that cost more.

Are you pleased in general, of how this implementation process is going, knowing tha it went into effect this year?

Right.

So the Raise act, you know, is where we took our foundation program and of course left it alone.

And then we took a appropriated amount extra money and we appropriated or appropriating it based on student need.

What type of student is at that school or in that school system?

Are they an English language learner, or are they a child coming out of poverty?

Or are they, a special, education type student?

So what do we have a far as that student population?

And then turning around and giving school districts additional funds to meet the needs of those students.

Right.

And so if, if that didn't exist, really some of those calls get picked up by the local.

That's correct.

Yeah.

And first say a special ed student, the cost are substantia based on the need of the child, but, some, you know, the cost is more, for some more than others.

But the cost compared to a regular student is is quite substantial.

And then extra teachers for for Ell students.

And then, we have an extra bucket for gifted students.

And because we want to challenge those students and, have the academic rigor and extra curricular that they need t to challenge them academically.

Well, it was interesting because Trish did some reporting.

Trish Crain, senior education reporter, did some reporting based on all this data that came out from the eight gap test last year.

But, you know, looking at it through that lens o especially students in poverty.

And it was really eye opening to see.

I mean I think we generally know that that's the case, but to see that data laid out that that showed.

Yeah, students that are economically disadvantaged just aren't scoring nearly as high as those that are not in poverty.

Again, it just really speaks to the whole point, part of the point of what y'all did with the raise act.

Well, and the research shows that.

And so it's it's very telling.

And, you know, people can be mad.

Well, why are we spending all this extra money on.

It's not those children's fault where they come from.

And so if they need additional assistance because perhaps their parents aren't, engaging them academically or forcing the to do their homework, you know, we are where we are, and we need to try to bring those children along so they can be good, functioning adult as a graduate from high school.

Switching gears, want to ask about the Choose Act.

That's another law that went into into effect really by effect I mean there are kids in school right now based on those grants, those tax credits that their parents could take advantage of.

What's been the feedback?

I know y'all had demand far greate than what you really expected.

What's been the feedback from those, you know, students as parents, as families?

From what I hear, relatively good.

Now, we had some issues with, families going from a, you know, public school to a private schoo and some issues with athletics.

And sometimes that can be a problem where the Alabam High School Athletic Association don't want, you know, students migrating around and trying to go, you know, to different schools for different reasons.

Doing a little transfer portal.

So, you know, I'm not going to go there, but, some something along those lines.

But, you know, those rules are still in play, whether you, you know, between private schools and, public schools.

So they, they didn't change anything.

And but, it's so far so good.

The question will become tied.

How how much o how far north will we go as far as eligibility.

Right now, our target is 300% poverty.

As far as our cap on, you know what we can afford?

We'll try to raise that over time.

To, to bump it north.

But we as I said earlier at the outset, we've got a lot of other, costs that we're going to have to consider in the education budget this coming year.

Am I correct tha if the demand stays up like it, the based on the current law, i the demand stays up like it is and you have enough of those, you know, 300% poverty and everything, that those are the priority.

And like you can't go below that.

No.

We you know, I think I can speak for Chairman Garrett in the House.

You know, we are committed not to go backwards.

So in other words, we're not going to whipsaw parents who are, you know, eligible for the program this year.

And then we pull it back and go for example, 250% povert because we don't have the money.

We're not going to do that now.

Do we go up to 325% poverty?

To be determined?

Because as I said earlier, we got a lot of other demands out there, right?

Well, and that comes with costs right, to the ETF.

And so are there concerns ther that it's going to grow in cost to the ETF relative to what it cost this time.

Well you know we can control it.

You know as far as how much money we appropriate to it.

So we the initial was this 300% poverty.

And then if we go north of that, that would of course make others eligible for it.

But as we go north we're going to have to kind of hold that ground permanently.

We can't just go back and forth and yo yo, up and down the scale and, and you know, cost families a lot of anxieties, based on our actions here in Montgomery.

Right.

Got to keep the promise.

I wanted to ask you about a piece of legislation switching off of education for a minute.

Well, a piece of legislation.

You have, come in this session having to do with Snap supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, better known as food stamps.

Your bill would essentially restrict candy and soda from from counting.

And I think a lot of that kind of makes common sense to a lot of people.

But for some reason that's you can buy candy and soda with with food stamps.

Talk about what your bill does and does it get a viable shot in this session?

You think?

Well, yeah, we're going to try.

You've seen in the last month, couple months, several states have gotten waivers from the federal government where they are able to implement this in their states.

In other words, the governor can of any state can request a waiver from the federal government.

And under the Trump administration, they're giving those waivers.

Previously, those waivers weren't given.

So this, bill, would require our Alabama entities to request the, the waiver and, you know, we'll see where it goes in the legislative process.

But the thinking is this, you know, why should the taxpayers be funding soft drinks and candy, from their hard earned dollars?

That's not an entitlement.

People aren't entitled to those kind of things.

And secondly, they're not very healthy.

At all.

And a lot of this constituency that are on Snap are probably on Medicaid.

So now if they're obese and they have high blood pressure, diabetes, and they're buying soft drink and candy with the Snap dollars, we're facilitating poor health that we're paying for via the Medicaid program.

So it doesn't make a lot of sense.

And I appreciate the Trump administration's, willingness to just grant waivers to states that want to do this.

But you know, of course, the pushback will be substantial.

And, you know, we'll do our best to, put this into policy for our state.

Nutrition is in the name, by the way.

Yeah.

This is not well.

And we we can have a long conversation about what's, you know, there are a lot of other food groups that are eligible for Snap that I would say aren't very nutritious.

But this is a start.

Interesting.

Well, that'll be something to watch as well as all of this will be.

Senator, we're out of time.

Thank you for your time.

An we'll catch up with you later.

Thank you.

Good to be with you.

We'll be right back.

Tuscumbia native Helen Keller is popularly remembered as the deaf and blind child who learned sign language from her teacher and Sullivan at the Keller home.

Ivy Green.

But during her adult life, she was a tireless activist on behalf of workers and women's rights.

A prolific author and an unofficial U.S. ambassador to the world, he most famous publication is her bestselling 1903 autobiography, The Story of My Life.

Through her work with the American Foundation for the blind, Keller advocated for broadened educational and employmen possibilities for blind people, and the State Departmen funded her international travel and advocacy of people with disabilities.

In 1964, President Lyndon Johnson awarded her the Congressional Medal of Freedom.

A bronze statue depicting a young Helen Kelle represents Alabama in the U.S. Capitol, and she is featured on our State Quarter.

Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Last month, Governor Kay Ivey appointed Hal Nash to be the board chair of the Alabama Board of Pardons and Parole.

And Mr. Nash joins me in studio.

Thank you for coming.

My pleasure.

Well, congratulations on your appointment.

I know it's a big, big job, but I was.

Before we get t some of the policy, I wanted to give you an opportunity to shar with our audience a little bit about your background especially in law enforcement.

I'm just an old country cop.

Okay.

I was, 40 years old when I got to realize, being able my goal of going through a police academy due to business obligations that I had.

So I was the oldest member of the academy class at the Chattanooga Police Academy.

In fact, my nickname was Papa because I was the eldest one there, but, served with the Chattanooga Police Department.

Then, we moved to Alabama, Jackson County, and, was hired at the Jackson County Sheriff's Office, work there a number of years and then went over to DeKalb County, where I was, worked as a vice commander and commander and, ended up, retiring there after working five years with the U.S.

Marshals Service Fugitive Task Force out of the Huntsville office, and, was hired in Jackson County as their chief corrections deputy, which was the last position I held for about five years.

And, before coming with the Board of Pardons and Paroles.

So how did that appointment work out?

I'm always curious about these things.

Is it something that you pursued or did you get a phone call?

Were you surprised at all of the governor's interest in appointing you?

I was surprised.

I received a call from our, presiding judge in Jackson County, Judge John Graham, who knew I was working on an exit strategy, from the Jackson County Sheriff's Office and asked if I would be interested.

They were on evidently seeking applications from, retired or soon to retire law enforcement.

And, I, I told him I sounded like something I'd be interested in.

And, the next week, I get a call from, the appointment Secretary Mason bass for the governor's permanent secretary or director, and, asked if that was on a Monday afternoon if I could interview Wednesday.

And I did, and, Monday at at work at the Jackson County Sheriff's Office.

I got a call about just a little after 10:0 and it was a Montgomery number.

And I thought, well, Mr. Bass is calling, thanking me for applying.

And lo and behold, it was Governor Ivey.

Okay, so, I was surprised.

Yes.

They move quick.

Well, you you mentioned your career in law enforcement, including on the corrections side.

You know, being on the Boar of pardons, parole is, you know, such a, difficult job sometimes because you're considering just, you know, really emotional.

Sometimes cases talk about how your career in law enforcement, including on the corrections side, can help inform you as you manage the board.

Yeah.

One of the thing that our board's about teamwork.

We want to build a team, and we have, but working as a team, we look at it, but we have to separate ourselves from the emotional side of it.

We have to be, emotional to the point that we are sympathetic not only to the needs of the citizens of Alabama through the public safety, but also to the victims, that are there.

But also the the, fairness goes over to the inmate, too.

So you've got to be fair in those three areas public safety, the citizens, the victims and the inmates and, me personally, I will on the side of public safety.

Right.

And that's that's a tough balance.

It really is.

And we've seen that over the years because we've had this situation where, unfortunately, it's been such a, you know, so much public scrutiny.

It's kind of been described as a pendulum.

Right?

Like, you know, one year it's the rates are way up and then there's a crack down and there's it goes down to single digits.

And so there's a lot of criticism in the media about that.

I read Mary, Mary South story, when you talked about your I don't know, mindset when it comes to this is not necessaril about parole rates, grant rates, but really individual cases.

And let's talk about that mindset.

That's it.

We we can't look at the numbers because the board doesn't deal in numbers.

The board deals in individuals, whether it be citizens of Alabama, the victims or the inmate.

We're dealing with people.

So we're not dealing with numbers.

We might have a week.

It depends on what cases fall on our desk, that we might have a 5% parole rate another week.

We may have a 50% becaus of the cases, type cases we get.

How long have they served?

What have they done to help themselves while they've been incarcerated?

Have they been on parole before and stubbed their toe and had to go back to prison?

Is this the first time they're applying for parole?

What are their plan or where they're going to live?

Have they acted in prison?

There's so many things that affect the decision and the file that the Bureau o Pardons and Paroles furnishes.

The board member is phenomenal.

We have just a wealth of information.

And then, of course, we have the family that can come of the inmate to speak to us and the victims or families of victim that can come and speak to us.

So that plays a role.

So it's not a number game, it's an individual game.

And each case has to be looked at that way.

We will not throw caution to the wind and public safety out the window just to get a number.

Right.

We can't do that and perform and be public servants and promote public safety.

Yeah.

I appreciate you explaining it that way.

The most recent, I'd sa last couple of years, the most criticism from this people in this building, the legislature towar the board has been two things.

Responsiveness to their questions.

In fact, there was legislation, almost passed last year having to do with responsiveness to to their questions and inquiries and things.

And then adherence to law and policy as it pertains to the laws on the books.

When it comes to pardons and paroles, you're brand new on the job, but I'm sure you've heard of this from from lawmakers already.

What are your plans?

To make sure you are responsive to their questions, and the board adheres to those policies and laws?

I met with our associate members, the two of them, Gabrielle Simmons and Darryl Littleton.

And that's one o the first things we talked about from my point of view this board is going to be open.

We're going to tell peopl what we believe to be the truth.

So we're going to be open and honest and we're going to be responsive.

We serve the folks, the citizens of Alabama, and we strive to do a good job with that.

And we have to be responsive to not only the citizens, but to their elected representatives.

They represent the citizens of this state.

So we need to if we're going to be responsive to the population, we need to be responsive to the legislators also.

Yeah, I know they're going to be glad to hear that.

Switching gears for a minute, you mentioned the Bureau because you all kind of work, you know, hand in hand.

There's been so much work don on trying to reduce recidivism.

Right.

We we've had Director warden here plenty of times talking about progress.

Sometimes it's incremental progress.

It takes a while to, you know, to turn that ship around.

But, what's your take on that?

Been so far in?

You're coming on to chair the board.

I know that the Perry County facility is up and running and really making a difference in terms of, okay, if if parolees are, you know, people are granted parole, inmates are going to parole, they're going to need a plan.

They're going to need a plan to find work, a plan to do this and that.

Talk about what you've seen in Perry County and the difference it's making.

Yeah, the Prep Center in Perry County, I'm a huge fan.

And the other two board members are also, it gives those offenders a leg up to get into society, whether it be mental help.

Substance abuse help jobs.

I've heard, director Ward say more than once that graduates from there sometimes make 70, $80,000 with skills that they learned there and in a, in a job and therefore a lot less likely to re-offend.

Exactly.

I mean, it's a wage tha that they can support a family without having to steal to do it.

It's it's an excellent opportunity.

The, we're big fans on the Board of pardons, paroles for the Prep Center.

We, Routinely use it and, parole folks to the Prep Center, of which, by the way, October 3rd, they're having a graduation, and it will put them well over the 400 person mar that has graduated from there.

And out of all those folks not one has come back to prison.

Well, that's the whole point.

We need to tell that story more.

In fact, maybe we can go to the ceremon and document some of that stuff because that's there's a good story to tell.

It's not mine to invite, but you can come as my guest.

I'm going.

Okay.

That way you can.

I can almost hear Kim Ward texting me right now saying, come on.

Yeah, we're we're out of time.

But thank you again for comin on and explaining some of this.

It's a big job, but, you sound very well suited for it.

And we'll follow up, as your tenure continues, please.

Do we want to be open with the media also?

Absolutely.

Thanks again.

You bet.

We'll be right back.

You can watch past episodes of Capital Journal online any time at Alabama Public Television's website.

aptv.org.

Click on the online video tab on the main page.

You can also connect with Capital Journal and link to past episodes o Capital Journal's Facebook page.

Since 1997, Alabam Public Television has provided programs, services, and resources to childcare professionals, teachers and parents.

Visit AP tv.org/education to learn more.

James Withers started the Sloss Furnace Company in 1880 to take advantage of the mineral wealth of the Jones Valley.

He built Sloss his first blast furnace, the following year.

A second furnace soon followed, and Sloss Furnaces produced 24,000 tons of iro in its first year of operation.

Sloss furnaces was an industr leader in innovation and design.

Its superintendent of construction, James Pickering Davout, led Sloss through a period of modernization in the 1920s that resulted in Sloss becoming the second largest producer of pig iron in the Birmingham district.

A slump in the iro market took shape in the 1950s.

Business began to decline and pig iron was basically obsolete by the 1960s.

Higher pollution standards finally closed the furnaces in 1970.

In 1981, Sloss Furnaces was designated a National Historic Landmark and today hosts events, concerts, and a metal arts program.

The site continues to stand as a testament to Birmingham's industrial past.

That's our show for this week.

Thanks for watching.

We'll be back next week at the same time right here on Alabama Public Television for our Capital Journal team.

I'm Todd Stacy.

We'll see you next time.