- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

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- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi everyone, I'm Steve Adubato.

We are pleased to welcome from the city of brotherly love, Bill Sproule who is the Executive Secretary Treasurer Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters Now, Bill, first of all, welcome, Bill.

- Thank you, Steve.

Good morning and I hope you're doing well.

- I'm doing great.

You are at a particular museum, describe it.

- Okay, this is a museum here on Spring Garden Street in Philadelphia that has artifacts from the Carpenters Union dating back to the inception, which was actually August 12th in 1881.

And I'm actually sitting in front of some artifacts.

In back of me is a trunk, I don't know if you can see it.

But it belonged to Peter J. McGuire who was the founder of the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America.

He was also the co-founder of the American Federation of Labor and he's also one of the folks that's responsible for creating Labor Day and the eight-hour work day.

So an amazing labor leader and it just so happens that he organized and created the organization that I belong to today.

- You know, Peter McGuire, 1881, the creation of... What was the original name by the way, Bill?

- United Brother... Well, it still is the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America.

- Got it, and Mr. McGuire is part of our "Remember Them" series I do with my colleague, Jacqui Tricarico.

Let me ask you this, before we move on to some other issues I just wanna help people understand, Peter McGuire important for so many reasons go back to the Labor Day issue which I believe was it 1894 that he proposed like, people go, "Hey, where the heck did Labor Day come from?"

That's McGuire.

- Well, there's a lot of information and a lot of disputes out there as to who may have actually been the founder of Labor Day and the creator of Labor Day but it was actually President Cleveland that made it more-- - Grover Cleveland?

- Grover Cleveland.

But what I understand after doing some research was in 1882 at a convention for the American Federation of Labor which is the AFL part of the AFLCIO, Peter McGuire proposed that there's a day where there's parades and rallies and things of that nature for all working people throughout the United States of America.

And that's the date of the actual first Labor Day parade.

The day it became an official holiday was after President Cleveland enacted it as a law, as a holiday, as a national holiday.

- So eight hour workday really important, wages doubled during that time.

By 1903 North American Carpenters Union and Carpenters had grown to 167 members.

They started with just a few thousand now over 500,000 members strong.

So again, we recognize and honor Peter McGuire, and P.S., inducted into the Hall of Fame I think it was 2014 in collaboration with the Hall of Fame.

That is Peter McGuire.

Hey, let's shift gears, Bill, let's shift gears.

You've talked to us offline and you've talked about this publicly about tax fraud.

What, from Peter McGuire to tax fraud I wonder what he would've said about tax fraud.

What is the tax fraud issue A, and what the heck needs to be done from a policy point of view to address it?

- Well, Steve let me start by just mentioning McGuire again, because some of the things he fought for are actually some of the things that are happening today in the construction industry.

During the 1870s and 1880s, there was a lot of open shop stuff, workers had to work 12 hour days, there was what's called piece work which happens in the industry today with a lot of unscrupulous practices.

So what happened recently we've been advocating to try to change the industry because there's a cancer in the construction industry and that is tax fraud and unscrupulous contractors.

Well, just this spring, Berkeley University put out a study and it's pretty alarming and it's the most alarming study that I've ever seen to date in my entire career.

Within this study, they determine that 39% of the construction workers in the United States are below the poverty level.

And this includes construction workers that work off the books because they have no documentation of any income.

But that same 39% of construction workers also rely on certain social safety net programs to help supplement their income.

And on a national level, it was determined that this is around 28 billion.

In New Jersey alone, they determined that 33% of the construction workers in the state of New Jersey are part of this group and that costs the state for the social safety net programs that they utilize around $325 million on an annual basis.

- But, Bill help people understand who say, "Well, I'm not in the Carpenters Union."

P.S., the Carpenters Union an underwriter of our public policy programming to make that clear.

People who say, "Hey, wait a minute "that's got nothing to do with me.

"I'm not a carpenter.

"I'm not in the union."

Talk to them, what does it mean?

What's the impact?

- This practice affects everybody because it doesn't only happen in the construction industry it happens in other industries.

It's almost like a giant gig economy, if you will where contractors are doing large seven figure contracts out there now and this used to be isolated to the residential world and smaller projects and home building and things of that nature.

But now we're seeing mid rises in high rises being built with a hundred workers being paid off the books, companies dodging the internal revenue folks and not-- - So they're just not paying taxes - Not paying into unemployment, not paying-- - But how does the... How does the IRS just say, "I don't know what they're doing or not doing."

Is this a top priority for the IRS?

- I would hope so.

Under the current administration, we've seen a lot of activity and Governor Murphy's administration has been doing a great job out there trying to correct this issue because the states lose a lot of money.

Any local, county, state, this is a domino effect and every single taxpayer in New Jersey and in America should be concerned about this because it may not be the industry where they make their living, but the members of the Carpenters Union and other trade unions are under siege right now.

And our way of life could change in the next decade if this doesn't have...

If they don't come up with a way to correct this issue that-- - Bill, hold on one second.

I wanna be clear, we got about a minute left.

Are you saying other taxpayers, those of us who pay our taxes as the law says we should based on our income, do we pay more because others are being paid off the books by these contractors?

- Absolutely.

Workman's compensation costs for legitimate companies are higher than normal because of people that don't carry proper insurance.

Our medical insurance is higher because of uninsured people that have to go into the hospitals after having construction industry accidents.

So it's really a bad problem and the Berkeley Study I would advise anybody that is interested in this subject to take a look at it 'cause it's very sobering.

- Hey Bill, thanks so much my friend.

Best to you and everyone and Bill is coming to us from the Carpenters Museum in Philadelphia.

Whole range of issues and also we honor Peter McGuire, 1881, the carpenters.

Hey Bill, all the best my friend, thank you.

- Thank you, Steve, great talking to you.

Take care now.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- We're now joined by Dr. Taryn Morrissey, Professor at the School of Public Affairs at American University.

Good to see you, Dr. Morrissey.

- Thanks so much for having me.

- You got it.

This is part of an ongoing series of programs we're doing around childcare and as part of our Reimagine Child Care initiative.

You'll see the website up.

A report that was done, you're the co-author of report released late in 2021 called "Pennies to the Dollar: The Investment Gap for New Jersey's Earliest Learners."

Key findings include... - Well, thank you.

Yes, as my collaborator, Ajay Chaudry and I detail in the report, New Jersey spends about $680 per year in state and federal funds in education and care for each child under age three.

So infants and toddlers, and this is in 2019.

So $680 per child.

Compare this to about 22,000 per child age five to 18 in K through 12 education, and about 8,000 per child in age three to four.

And New Jersey has really strong K through 12 schools and an evidence-based preschool program, but there's no universal system or really anything like it for infants and toddlers.

- Okay, but I wanna follow up on this.

But you also in the report talk extensively about the childcare workforce, wages, turnover.

They're just not getting paid.

Those professionals in childcare organizations just aren't getting paid enough.

Is that the biggest part of the reason why we're losing those folks and there's so much turnover, Doctor?

- I think so.

I mean, in May of 2021, the median wage for childcare workers in New Jersey was about $14 an hour.

And anybody living in the state or nearby knows how expensive it is, and nationally it's $13 per hour.

It's simply often not enough to live.

About half of childcare workers are eligible for or receiving public assistance because they earn so little.

We know nationally about 16% of childcare workers lack health insurance, and it leads to staff turnover, as you were saying, which is a big problem for young children who are trying to build relationships with their adult caregivers and parents who need reliable childcare to work.

- Not to mention keeping those childcare centers open if they don't have enough professionals to work there.

- That's exactly right.

The low compensation makes recruiting and retaining a skilled workforce really difficult, and many programs have empty classrooms that they can't staff.

And meanwhile parents are struggling to find and afford childcare.

- Tayrn, talk a little bit about the economic impact.

Some people might say, "Oh yeah, I think we should have better childcare.

That would be nice if it was more accessible and affordable and good quality, but it's not an economic issue."

It absolutely is an economic issue.

Talk about it.

- It absolutely is an economic issue, and in three ways.

I mean, one, at the very basic level childcare allows parents to work.

I mean, I have two children ages five and eight and they're currently at summer camp.

It's allowing me to work.

Second, childcare is in a vital employment sector in its own right.

We were just talking about the childcare workforce.

Now, it's arguably too low compensated.

We need to increase compensation, but it employs millions of people across the country and allows other people to work.

And then finally, high-quality settings promote the workforce of the future.

We know that developmentally-appropriate high-quality settings, curricula, interactions with adults promote children's short and long-term educational economic outcomes.

- Let's talk about federal dollars here.

So a lot of federal money, billions and billions of dollars, federal money connected to COVID relief.

To what degree have those dollars, particularly with the American Rescue Plan, to what degree did those dollars, have those dollars gone toward the childcare crisis?

- Quite, and billions of dollars have been invested in the child care crisis and it's necessary.

I mean, these problems have preexisted the pandemic, but the pandemic has exacerbated families' struggles in finding and affording childcare and in childcare programs struggling to stay open.

The economics of childcare are difficult in that the equality depends on the interaction between the adult and the child.

And that requires small child-to-adult ratios which means that labor is a big expense.

Now, we know that compensation is low, right?

Because parents are paying as much or more than they can afford.

And it makes childcare profit margins really, really small.

And so you throw in a crisis like the pandemic when public health measures are expensive, when enrollment goes down, and childcare programs have a really hard time staying open.

So those federal relief dollars were essential to keeping the childcare sector going and to keeping the economy going.

Much of our workforce are parents who need this childcare to work, especially when schools are closed, but this continues.

So those relief dollars were essential for paying rent, paying utilities, and paying personnel and allowing programs to reopen or stay open.

- Okay, so let's go through this, the findings of the study.

And P.S., if we put up the website at American University, more specifically, the School of Public Affairs, is the report accessible to people?

- Yes, the report is accessible actually on ACNJ's website, the Advocates for Children of New Jersey website - So let me try this.

So if we're talking about substantive, specific policy changes that need to be made to have a stable stronger childcare system, paying workers more, providing more direct subsidies to parents of children, particularly those who qualify from an economic perspective, and what else?

Give me a couple of other policy actions, policy decisions that need to be made and moved forward on and implemented, please.

- Those are the big ones.

I mean, expanding childcare assistance to families across the income spectrum up to moderate income families would do a lot to help families afford child care- - Sorry, Doctor, is it too low right now?

Is the threshold too low right now?

- It is, and I know there's, well, right now it's up to about 85% of state median income, but only 18% of eligible infants and toddlers right now in New Jersey actually receive help, so receive subsidies.

- That's it, 18%.

- We're not even... - Wow.

- That's 4% of New Jersey's infants and toddlers.

So we're not even serving the children who are eligible, and we need to raise that eligibility.

I know there's proposals in New Jersey being debated up to 300% of the federal poverty level, for example.

- That's right.

- The quality really rests on the interaction and that warmth, the responsiveness between caregivers and teachers and children.

And so we know that children's outcomes flourish in the short term and the long term when we have that quality.

And providers need to need to be compensated fairly for their education and their experience.

And so rewarding individuals for getting more credentials, for experience and and preventing them from moving to the K through 12 sector or the preschool sector where they will get paid more.

- To what degree do you believe that a significant number of policy makers in elected and appointed office, particularly those who are men are getting this, understanding it, and acting on it?

I know it's a loaded question.

30 seconds or less.

- I'm not a political scientist.

I'm a developmental psychologist, but I will say just from my 20 years in the field that I do see people understanding the field more.

I see my college students, male and female alike understanding and getting excited about child and family policy and recognizing that the economy is simply not going to sustain itself with a workforce that can't get to work and stay at work.

And we need to provide fair jobs for the workforce in childcare that's disproportionately female and disproportionately women of color.

And we need to set our children up for future success.

So we've made strides, but we still have a lot of work to do in supporting the youngest among us.

- Well said, and that is why we're involved in a public awareness campaign called Reimagine Child Care.

Dr. Taryn Morrissey, Professor at the School of Public Affairs at American University.

Thank you so much, Doctor, appreciate it.

- Thank you for having me.

- You got it.

Stay with us.

We'll we right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- We're now joined by James Horne, who is the President of Junior Achievement in the state of New Jersey.

Good to see you, Jim.

- Good to be here.

- Let everybody know as we put up the website for Junior Achievement what it is and why it's such an important organization.

- Sure.

So Junior Achievement strives to provide young people with financial literacy skills and skills to really prepare them to move into adulthood.

So in New Jersey, we have a couple of programs that we offer here on our site in Edison, our Capstone facility, we have our BizTown and Finance Park.

BizTown is really more designed for the high school students, Finance Park provides services to the five- to eighth-grade students.

We also do programs in schools with the same model in mind, to provide financial literacy information to students throughout New Jersey.

- So, first of all, on my end, Jim, I apologize, I was remiss.

Congratulations.

You are a new president as we speak, of Junior Achievement.

- Three weeks in, Steve, three weeks in.

- Impressive.

Good stuff.

Let's talk a little bit more about, not only the programmatic piece of this, but my interaction with Junior Achievement over the years I've always been fascinated by the financial literacy part of it.

Explain to folks, Jim, why the financial literacy piece is so important to the development of young people.

- Well, I think a lot of times we take it for granted that young people understand how to manage money and how to manage their finances.

And, what we find is that young people that don't have that experience, number one, and then they make significant mistakes in their life, you know, run up credit cards, go into debt, get bad credit, which impacts their lives as they move through adulthood for a substantial period of time.

So financial literacy is really critical with helping young people understand how to manage the funds that they have, how to make choices on what to spend that's a necessity versus a want, and really, again, preparing them to ensure that they've got the resources to support themselves and their families as they move into adulthood.

- You know, I'm curious, financial literacy, the economics of an organization, particularly a not-for-profit like yours, like ours, like any not-for-profit, including the world of public broadcasting, all of us affected, impacted by COVID.

What has been the greatest impact of COVID two and a half years plus into this pandemic, on Junior Achievement?

- Well, I think we're still experiencing, and this is a great example of that, our ability to provide services in person was limited, which also reduced our ability to have mentors in front of young people so they could see and then interact with role models, not only to get the financial literacy training, but to have some face-to-face time with someone who's walked there, walked and been in their pathway.

And we've been, you know kind of moved to the virtual environment, although I want to say and applaud Junior Achievement of New Jersey for making that shift and continuing to serve students, we realized that that interaction, that face-to-face interaction, is very valuable for young people.

- Hmm.

And the other piece of this, Jim, is that you, what town did you grow up in?

- I actually, I'm not from New Jersey, I'm from Bridgeport, Connecticut.

And, you know, the interesting thing about that for me is, I was a Junior Achievement student- - Exactly.

That's where I was going, Jim.

- Yeah.

(Jim chuckles) - So how did you even connect with Junior Achievement as a kid growing up?

- Well, you know, my mom, you know, I was raised by a single parent.

My dad died when I was young, 10 years old, and Mom realized that she needed to get me and my other brothers into activities to keep us safe and off the street while she had to go to work.

And so, in addition to the Boys & Girls Clubs, the Ys, you know, when it came time for high school, here was Junior Achievement.

So it was a, you know, an extracurricular activity in the evening that was providing me with some information, how to manage a business, you know, what the different components of running a business were.

And really, also again, that mentor in your life at a young age so that you could have a conversation if you have a problem.

It was really instrumental for me, personally, which is why when I got the call from the search firm, it really peaked my interest to explore this opportunity.

- The issue of college.

College affordability, accessibility, all those issues matter.

But the question of the value of a higher education is continually talked about, more so I believe now, with the advent of COVID, for a lot of reasons.

What do you believe, as the leader of Junior Achievement in the state, and understanding Junior Achievement, what is the message of Junior Achievement as it relates to college?

- Well, I think the one thing that we have to realize, and particularly in this day and time due to the cost of higher education and other factors, that one size doesn't fit all.

I mean, Junior Achievement's real objective is to prepare young people for the jobs that will be available in the future.

We have an aging workforce as you and I both know, and there are some jobs that pay, you know, very well that don't require a college education, but they do require credentialing.

Not to say that a young person that's wants to go on to higher education should be dissuaded from that, but we also want to understand that there are other opportunities for young people and our labor force needs young people to think about other pathways beyond just the traditional college, four-year college track.

- Well said.

Before I let you go, volunteers.

A big part of Junior Achievement, excuse me, is about volunteers.

What do you need volunteers for?

- Our volunteers are instrumental to the work that we do.

We actually train them to deliver the curriculum and, you know, what that does for us, it reduces our costs, obviously.

So if we've got volunteers from different companies that come and participate, go through our training modules, they can deliver the services to the students, both here in Edison and in Camden and the high school there.

So, it's really critical for us to have volunteers that are committed.

And when I say committed, that are gonna show up when they say they're gonna show up, that can deliver the curriculum, and also that are caring adults.

So it's a real important element of the work that we do.

- Jim Horne is the president, as of three weeks ago as we do this program (Jim chuckles) of Junior Achievement in the state of New Jersey and we are fortunate to have him, from Connecticut originally.

Hey, Jim, all the best to you and the team at Junior Achievement.

Thank you.

- Thank you for having me, Steve.

I'm Steve Adubato.

That's the President of Junior Achievement, Jim Horne.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

Johnson & Johnson.

University Hospital.

NJM Insurance Group.

Bank of America.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

The New Jersey Economic Development Authority.

And by New Jersey'’s Clean Energy program.

Promotional support provided by Northjersey.com and Local IQ.

Part of the USA Today Network.

And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

Nurses.

You rise to the challenge every day.

We see you and stand with you.

You'’re scientists, healers, rock star nurses.

You give 100%, then find 50% more.

For health systems to work it takes nurses, and for 125 years, we've championed your innovation and grit.

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