From ou statehouse studio in Montgomery.

I'm Todd Stacey.

Welcome to Capitol Journal.

This week marked the 14th, 15th, and 16th legislative days of the Alabama Legislature's 2025 regular session.

That puts us past the halfway point of the session.

In terms of meeting days.

Lawmakers will take a break next week and return on April 1st, when they'll have until May 19th to meet for the final 14 legislative days.

There's a lot coming up in the second half of the session, including work on the state's budgets.

I'll talk with Senate Majority Leader Steve Livingston and Hous Minority Leader Anthony Daniels.

More about that later in the show.

Our coverag this week starts in the Senate, where a major piece of pharmacy legislation was considered, Senate Bill 252, which aims to regulate pharmacy benefit managers or PBMs.

Passed unanimously this week.

The bill has been in the works for weeks, with lawmakers making changes even as the debated it on the Senate floor.

Capita Journal's Jeff Sanders reports.

When it comes to passing legislation, many bills are already worked out behind the scenes before reaching the Senate floor.

Senate Bill 252 was a rare example of the legislative process unfolding in real time, with senators actively negotiating and refining its details during debate.

The bill's sponsor, Senator Bill Beasley, says the goal is simple make prescription drugs more affordable for patients and protect independent pharmacies.

It the prescription drugs are almost unaffordable for anyone, even if you have insurance.

And so I'm hoping that more states will pass legislation like we've passed today in Alabama.

That sends a message to the PBM industry.

PBMs serve as a middleman between insurance companies and pharmacies, control dru prices and reimbursement rates.

Many independent pharmacie argue that PBMs often pay them less than what it costs to fill prescriptions, forcing them to close their doors.

You know, we need to get this relief immediately to pharmacists across the state and to their patients because they're closing, o average, about three per month.

The bill requires fairer reimbursements for independen pharmacies, restricts PBM fees, and requires that 100% of drug manufacturer rebates go back to health plans instead of PBM profits.

Clearly what the PBMs have been doing, the product they've been selling to, we're going to save you money is absolutely false.

At one point Senator Chris Elliott proposed delaying the bill's start date until next year.

Tonight, 21 nays.

One abstention.

The senator Elliott Amendment fails, but lawmakers rejected that idea.

Instead, the Senate settled on an October 1st start date at the beginning of the new fiscal year.

Supporters say the bill is about protecting patient access to local pharmacies and ensuring fair business practices and the prescription drug market.

I had a little quote about what a PBM was stands for pretty bad medicine.

Senate leadership praised the effort, calling it a major win fo consumers and small businesses.

This has been a deliberation like we were supposed to have on this floor.

The way that we handled this busines might not have been very pretty, but we went back and forth and made this bill better.

By the end of the day.

For Beasley, a longtime pharmacist.

The fight is personal.

A pharmacist is going to help folks in need.

With unanimous support in the Senate.

The bill now heads to the House for further debate.

Reporting for Capitol Journal I'm Jeff Sanders.

Thank you Jeff.

On to the House, where lawmaker considered tax cut legislation and a plan to offer public school and stat employees paid parental leave.

Capital journal's Randy Scott reports.

If we go into a recession or if we have a downturn in our economy, we've got to make sure we can afford what we've alread obligated ourselves to revenue.

The economy and taxes are all on the minds of lawmakers this regular session.

Specifically, ho and which taxes, such as the tax on overtime pay, will benefit citizens and Alabama when it goes from estimation of 30 million to 1, that's over 300.

What I think today is 319 million.

I mean, that's just I don't think it's good government when you do that.

And this person I'm not against the bill at all.

Fact like I said, I support it.

But I also think we're going to be conservative in our bedroom in the process.

We got to do it in a mindful way.

In addition to the proposals like making the overtime overtime tax exemption permanent.

Completely eliminating the grocery ta and reduce the state income tax.

We're also focused on long term growth and investment to keep Alabama's economy strong in the face of uncertainty.

To use on other taxes and issues such as House Bill 327, the parental leave bill.

Representative Ginny Shaver introduced this concept last year, but it failed in the Senate.

She's bringing it back this yea and combining it with portions of another bill from Senator Vivian Davis.

Figures focusing on education, personnel.

The bill that I brought was just for state employees only.

And that bill passed unanimously from this body, went to the Senate.

Senator figures was carrying a bill to do the same for education employees.

So when the bills were together in the Senate, the sentiment was that they should be merged so that the benefits would mirror each other.

The House approves House Bill 327.

So it's definitely a bipartisan bill.

We had bipartisan co-sponsors, and it's good for our education system.

It's good for us to be abl to recruit the personnel we need and to to be able to retain them.

I think the impact will be seen in future years, and the effects of it, and how it helps families and help to support families and enable them to properly bond with their children and have that time at hom to take care of their children at the state House.

Randy Scott, Capitol Journal.

Thank you.

Randy.

And just a note on that parental leave bill.

Governor Ivey has also championed that legislation, so she is expected to sign it into law soon.

That will mean probably one of the biggest policy developments so far this session.

Another high profile bill o this session has now become law.

Governor Ivey this wee signed into law Senate Bill 67.

This is the legislation that will revamp the governance structure at the Alabam Department of Veterans Affairs, making the commissioner a member of the cabinet and moving the board from an administrative one to an advisory one.

It was born out of the dust up last year that led to the removal of former VA commissioner Kent Davis.

The bill was sponsored by State Senator Andrew Jones and carried in the House b State Representative Ed Oliver.

And since that law went into effect immediately, Ivey took the opportunity to appoint Brigadier General Jeff Newton as the new Commissioner of Veterans Affairs.

Newton had been serving as interim commissioner these last several months prior to his appointment.

Newton was director of the Joint Staff at the Alabama National Guard, and had a 41 year career in the military.

More legislative action to report.

This week, lawmakers debated a bill that would give a select group of inmates serving life sentences a second chance at liberty.

Senate Bill 156, known as the Second Chance Bill, is sponsored by State Senator Wil Barfoot and was also championed by Governor Ivey in her state of the state address.

The measure would allow inmates sentenced to life without parole under the Habitual Habitual Felony Offende Act to petition for resentencing if their original crime would not carry that same punishment under today's laws.

The bill faced opposition from some Republicans, with them arguing that it could undermine sentencing laws.

It initially failed on the Senate floor with a 16 to 16 tie vote.

But after some behind the scenes negotiations, state Senator Jack Williams, who had previously voted no, move to reconsider on a second vote.

Senate Bill 156 passed 17 to 18 and now heads to the House for further debate.

Is there an automatic?

We've let you out early and you've re offended.

We put you in in prison unde the habitual Felony Offender Act and you have habitually felony offended again.

Is there an automatic go back to jail or do we have to re adjudicate this?

I understand wha we're trying to accomplish here.

You're mentioning 200 and that are so we don't really know how many there are.

The only other concern I got is the courts.

We we are trying to keep, and we are establishing new courts already, and more are needed.

And yet we're goin to put this additional petition that's in there that we haven't had.

So I have a concern about that too.

I would just say, you know, album policy institutes are very conservative.

Organization came ou with a letter of support saying, that, you know, they applauded the governor and, and for, you know, pushing this bill and for me carrying the bill, so I don't think it's a soft on crime approach.

Again, under current law, we let, individuals with much more heinous offenses out under current standards today than we did, those 150, 200 individuals who were sitting in prison, for life without the possibility of parole.

A pair of election related bill sparked a debate in the Senate this week, as senators questioned how the state maintains its voter rolls and verifies voter residency.

Senate Bill 142, sponsore by State Senator Wes Kitchens, would formally remove the Electronic Registration Information Center or Eric, as a resource for tracking voter address changes.

Alabama already stoppe using Eric in January of 2023.

Under Secretary of Stat Wes Allen, who instead launched the Alabama Voter Integrity Database, or Avid, to manage the state's voter rolls.

Meanwhile, Senate Bill 158, also sponsored by Barfoot, would prohibi the use of state issued foreign national driver's licenses as a valid form of identification for voting.

The measure target licenses issued to non citizens, including immigrants who later become naturalized citizens.

Democratic leader Senator Bobb Singleton voiced concerns over both measures, saying he wants more time to discuss their impact with the Secretary of State's office.

After some debate on the Senate floor, both bill's sponsor agreed to carry the bills over for further discussion at a later date.

Here' what Singleton had to say about while he's pressing for more time to review the proposals.

Because I want to talk some more with the Secretary of State.

We had we started this conversation earlier just before coming in today.

I want to kind of complete those conversations and get me a better understanding of where they're going with this.

How do we make it work?

Because I don't want us to continue to change some just because one somebody.

And that could be avoide because just as well as we could say, don't accept this license, we could do training to tell them to accept it.

Okay, the same thing.

And so I just want to make sure where are we going?

Making sure that we're not denying people the right to vote because it sounds unsafe.

As you're right, you will be trying to give everybody that right to vote.

But I can see it at some point.

It could be used for something bad.

Also.

The House this week also passed legislation prohibiting campaign contributions and expenditures from foreign nationals.

House Bill 363 from State Representativ James Lomax, is meant to prevent election interference from foreign entities.

It could be a foreign based company, but if they have a domestic operation, then funds from that domestic operation can contribute to, campaigns within the United States.

So that'll be the same for for this under this bill as well.

Okay.

Have you have have you have any occurrenc of this happening prior to now.

Oh yes.

Throughout the United States this has been this has been an issue in the state and this state.

This on this is just not a federal bill that, you know, it's a state law that you you pass in here.

But have you found any occurrences in the state of Alabama?

And the reason why you're bringing is this legislation?

Well, there's been occurrences, that again, through ballot referendums, it's been unknowingly.

So I mean, that the fact that's happened in other states that could easily be happening here and we just don't know it because you don't kno where the money's coming from.

Okay.

So I that's what I was wondering.

Why.

Right.

You won't get you're proceeding.

You're being proactive on that.

Yeah okay.

Not reacting.

That bill passed unanimously and now goes to the Senate.

The House also passed legislation that would remove state sales tax from certain infant care products and reproductive products.

House Bill 152 from State Representative Neil Rafferty would make diapers, baby formula, maternity clothing and menstrual products exempt from state sales tax bills with the removing this state portion of the sales tax.

State sales tax on baby supplies, baby formula, maternit clothing and menstrual hygiene products for personal use.

We take taxes off for everything because I don't think we need to take taxes off maternity clothes and and menstrual hygiene.

We already giving that away free.

You know we got it.

We give it to the children in school for free.

We pay for that.

Some things.

Yes.

Food.

Yes.

If you're talkin about your prescriptions.

Yes.

But I don't want to be a society where we don't collect any taxes, because within our society there are those people that don't have.

And not saying that they don' work, we have the working poor.

Right.

So we need some taxes so that government can take care of their people.

That bill also passed unanimously and now goes to the Senate.

The Senate Health Committee held a publi hearing over legislation meant to tighten regulation on marijuana derived products.

Senate Bill 237 from Stat Senator Tim Melson would place new restrictions on psychoactive cannabinoids found in hemp, including compounds like delta THC.

It would also place those products under the jurisdiction of the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board.

During that public hearing, several business owners and hemp growers voice strong opposition to the bill.

They argue that it would harm small businesses and limit consumer access.

The bill failed to advance on a tie vote.

Senator Nelson, who chairs the committee, has the authority to bring the bill back up for reconsideration.

But he said he currently has no plans to do so.

It puts hemp under ABC, which oversees liquor, not agricultural products.

This move not only burdens an already stretched agency, but it also risks penalizin and criminalizing hemp products more harshly.

That alcohol and tobacco, these products that we're talking about are clearly being used as recreational marijuana, and they are getting people high.

On my way down today, I decided to stop and pick up some products, and I asked the lady, is this going to get me high?

And she said, oh yeah, it's definitely going to get you high.

I mean, there were some if you if you heard him speak today that they're against the bill because they want to ban it, then there's some tha don't want anything to happen.

You know, they have a market out there that's unregulated.

I mean, the 2018 hemp bil did not include for consumption.

It was only for paper products, you know, clothing and rope.

And it wanted to get a market out there for hemp.

Nothing that the U.S. Department of AG will not, grade i or analyze it for consumption.

Human.

That was not the intent of the bill.

These individual have found a loophole industry that they're trying to exploit for, you know, they they keep bringing up all these medical reasons.

And those medical reasons, in my opinion, are excuses to get a product out there for people to, I'll just say enjoy whatever you want to call it.

The Senate Agriculture, Conservation and Forestry Committee approved a separate marijuana bill from Nelson, who was the original sponsor o Alabama's medical cannabis law.

Senate Bill 72 aims to resolve the legal challenges facing the Medical Cannabis Commission by increasing the number of licenses for integrated facilities.

Those are businesses that bot grow and sell medical cannabis, and have been at the heart of all these lawsuits.

It would also requir an independent firm to oversee the selection proces for future for future licenses.

In an effort to improve transparency.

Despite the bill passing committee, Nelson himself expressed doubt about its future, citing strong opposition, including from the commission itself.

I think it was an effort, but I don't think it was a credible, effort to make sure that these peopl were ranked in the proper order.

When you hear some of the judges talk about the factors that they used to influence them, it makes it suspect that, hey, for a lot of people to go in and produce excess product that's never going to have a chance to be put out there.

I don't kno if it ever come up on the floor.

A lot of outside influences, a lot of deep pockets, a lot of, you know, constituents in different areas, the five people who got license or five corporations have a lot of influence as well.

And so it's going to be a struggle.

Also, on the issue of marijuana, this week I sat down with Medical Cannabis Commission Directo John McMillan to get an update in the wake of the appeals court ruling that will restart that long stalled licensing process.

He said that with no other hiccups, medical marijuana products could be available sometime this year.

He also cautioned lawmakers about the potential setbacks of passing new legislation.

However well-intended.

The only concern I would have, or you might say a word of caution to the legislature would be, be carefu what changes you make, because those kind of things could cause us a whole new round of litigation and a whole new.

You know, we had a 100,000 pages application, over 100,000 pages, over 10 pages of rules and regulations.

There's plenty of things there for creative lawyer to figure out to, to sue about.

And we're in the best position.

We've been through this whole process right now with this civil appeals ruling that lets us mandates us to be able to move forward with the appeals, with the hearing process.

And that' that's what we need to do now.

The House Educatio Budget Committee met this week and considered a number of bills, including legislation that would offer workers compensation insurance to teacher and other public school workers.

Senate Bill one, from State Senator Sam Gauvin, passed the Senate unanimously but faced questions in House committee about the potential cost to the state.

Just so many people are surprised to find out that our education employees do not have workers compensation insurance.

Our state employees have it but not our education employees.

To clarifications on whether occupational diseases are covered as they are for state employees.

That was something that was pointed out.

There were some things like, just how things are don in practice, giving notice by, electronically or digitally as opposed to certified mail.

That's just not they don't do certified mail anymore in that world.

That bill wa carried over and lawmakers said they would take it up again after next week's break.

The committee also reconsidered legislation that would place a 4% fee on outgoing international cash transfers.

House Bill 297 from stat Representative Jennifer Fiddler, is part of a package of bill relating to illegal immigration.

Revenue from those fee would be split among a sheriff's fund to hope to help offset the cost of enforcing immigration laws, public schools for the education of English language learners, and to hospital for uncompensated care expenses.

The bill was held up two weeks ago after concerns were raised about those new fees.

But the bill today or bill thi week rather cleared committee.

And we wanted to make sure it was clear who it affected and who it wasn't in that payment processor definition.

So who it does not affect, thought may go over this again.

Individuals who use a payment processor like PayPal or Venmo, any transaction originating from a banking institution, a bank or credit union payment processor, anything that facilitates funds that originate from a bank or credit card or debit card.

It does not affect any bank or credit union wire or sale of money order or check cashing or credit and debit card transactions.

Who it does affect will b individuals who send cash wired through companies that generally offer in-person services that include cash transfers like Western Union or Moneygram, or individuals who send cash transfers who are not licensed legitimate banks.

And that bill will now go to the full House.

One issue that will await lawmakers when they return from the break is a bill that would allow heavier log trucks on Alabama's highways.

Senate Bill 110 an its companion House, Bill 204, have both cleared committee and are awaiting a vote in their respective chambers.

The bills propos increasing weight limits for log truck axles, something supporters say will benefit the timber industry and prevent log truck drivers from being unfairly penalized with court fees and fines.

They argue that drivers are often fined for exceeding axle weight limits, even when the overall weight of their trailer is within legal limits.

But state troopers and transportation officials warn that heavier load could mean more damage to roads and bridges and a greater risk to drivers.

We just want to make sure that everybody that gets o Alabama roadways makes it home so so that's why we're involved with this particular piece of legislation, and that's why we are concerned about it.

Because, again, for us and a lot of people that are in law enforcement, not just troopers, this could be sheriff's deputies this could be police officers.

We see the aftermath, you know, we see the families, we come in contact with, the families of the people when they lose a life.

So we really want to create a situation where everybody can be successful.

Right.

So is are we doing that?

If we put an extreme amount of weight on these vehicles and on these trailers, is that really creating a situation for that driver to be successful?

And if the answer's no, then we have to look at that.

Dozens turne out to the state House this week as part of a demonstration protesting immigration measures being considered.

Here in the legislature.

There are several immigratio related bills moving this year, including some attemptin to align state law enforcement with the ramped up deportation efforts of the Trump administration organized by the Alabam Coalition for Immigrant Justice.

The rally was meant to demonstrate how critical immigrants are to Alabama's economy.

Today, we stand together to defend the human right and civil rights of immigrants.

Look around you.

So many people from every corner of our state, from Russellville to Fort Payne, from Huntsville, automobile, from Cullman to Birmingham and from Tuscaloosa to Dothan.

We all converge here in Montgomery, our capital state, to.

We are teachers.

We're doctors.

We're business owners.

We're cooks for service workers.

We're community leaders.

We are an essential par of the backbone of this state.

And we are here because we refuse to stay silent while immigrants are being are being targeted by harmful laws.

We want all the legislators in the building to understand the real impact of passing these kinds of laws on Alabama's economy, on its workforce.

We know that immigrants are huge piece of Alabama's economy, and these bills will be extremely damaging to all the sectors in Alabama.

The workforce.

The Alabama Senat had a special guest this week.

Congressman Shamar figures was back from Washington and made a brief visit to the state House.

It was an emotional moment for figures, who, of course, is the son of current state Senator Vivian Figures and former state senator Michael Figures.

He talked about that specia tie to the statehouse and shared what he sees as the upcoming priorities when Congress reconvenes next week.

That podium i where my mother speaks from now, when my father spoke hom for for some 20 years, roughly 20 years or so.

And so, you know, it's just a reminder of how you got here and the sacrifices that were made for you to, for you to be here.

Still trying to figure out ho we can keep our rural hospitals and health care access here in the state of Alabama.

Number one.

We met this morning with the, Hospital Association on, getting a better understanding of that issue.

But at the end of the day, I mean, communities that are losing hospitals are slowly drying up, right?

That's a recipe for disaster economically, from a health care access standpoint, from being able to build up a local tax base.

And so getting back up there getting to work on that issue, which is something that we've already done, beyond that, i make sure that we're standing up and protecting the interests of, of, of the federal interest that we have in this district, making sure, that we're calling attention to federal cuts that are disproportionately impacting us, standing up in this next budget fight, standing up for Medicaid standing up for Social Security, standing up Snap benefits, all of which people in this district and in the state participate in at a higher rate than the national average.

So it's a lot of priorities, a lot of priorities.

But those are some of the ones that are at the top.

The Alabama Reentry Commission met this week to discuss ongoing work by state agencies to reduce recidivism.

Member heard from the Council of State Governments Justice Center about ways the state can use debt can use data to inform policies that can help former inmates reenter society when their sentences are complete.

The council state Government Justice Center worked with the Reentry Alabama Commission to come up with recommendations to strengthen reentry in Alabama.

We had working groups comprised of different stakeholders from across agencies and across the state.

And they developed recommendations to strengthen workforce development and economic mobility for individual that are, released from prison.

Opportunitie to expand employer engagement, strengthen relationships and educate employers, provide education and training to individuals.

Recommendations around expanding housing opportunities.

Access to behavioral health and substance use treatment, as well as recommendations to strengthen data, capacity, and being able to track outcome measures to understand, what's working and what's not working.

The next step, the commission is going to produce a final report that includes, the full list of recommendations.

And then the next step is to develop, statewide infrastructure that can move forward on implementation.

So developing a statewide reentry commission that can really develop action plan and take these recommendations and translate them into action.

This week, marked by Alabama's best day here at the Capitol Complex, sponsored by the Alabama Grocers Association, the Alabama Departmen of Agriculture and Industries, and the Alabama Food Manufacturers and Producers Association.

The event featured Alabama made products from across the state, allowing passers by to sample all the fairs.

Governor Ivey also paid a visit and highlighted the billions of dollars these producer pump into the Alabama economy.

But we may politely disagree over who's got the best basketball team.

But when it comes to food, there's no dispute that the state of Alabama has the best.

It's been said that good food brings folks together.

That's true not only at the dinner table, but also for a growing economy.

Over 888,000 Alabamians work in food manufacturing, as well as wholesale and retail food jobs all over the state.

In just in the last 13 months, I have participated in ceremonies launching major new food manufacturing plants both in North Alabama and South Alabama.

The Alabama food industry, you know, generating more than 6.8 billion worth of dollars in wages with a staggering $18 billion in total economic impact.

Alabama's food producers in partnership with the Alabama Growers of Grocers Association and the Alabama Department of Good Industries, also play a vital role in supporting charities that give back to our state, including Children's of Alabama, Milo's to Connect, Sausage, and everyone in between.

Alabama is home to the very best.

I can't wait to get in line to sample some of these.

Grady, thank you al for coming out to join us today and honoring Alabama's food industry.

Thank God.

Continue to bless each and every one of you and the great state of Alabama.

Coming up after the break, I'll sit down with Senate Majority Leader Steve Livingston for his perspective here.

At our halfway point after that, House minority Leader Anthony Daniels is in studio to talk about a number of issues, including that tax cut legislation.

We'll also get bot of their NCAA tournament picks.

Stay with us.

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You're watching Alabama Public Television celebrating 70 years of service to Alabama.

Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Joining me next is state Senator Steve Livingston, majority leader of the Alabama Senate.

Mr. leader thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me.

It's good to see you again.

Appreciate you.

Your invitation this evening.

Absolutely.

Well, it's always good to hear from you and catch up.

And here we are at the halfway point, a session, actually I guess a little past halfway.

Day 16.

That's right.

So just from your perspectiv in the majority at the Senate, how has this first hal of the legislature gone so far?

You know, Todd, I remember a little bit like last year when we were talking about Senator Reid had divided up the session into third.

I think that Senator Rogers divide up in half.

And we've had a we've had a really productive first half of the session taking care of some issues that are key to Alabama and Alabama values an and protecting Alabama's values.

Yeah.

You know, I've dived into crime legislation, immigration legislation.

I mean, some tough things that can be pretty thorny but y'all getting through them.

Who would have ever thought we'd have to define what a woman is?

But we had to define what a woman is.

And so we could have our our muscle law athlete protected.

Yeah.

A lot of, culture war issues kind of trickling down from Washington in many ways.

Right.

I wanted to ask you about some of the legislative action this week, specifically on the issue of PBMs.

These are pharmacy benefit managers, legislation been around for a couple of years, really to give pharmacies a break.

They are really struggling dealing with, what they call unfair reimbursement rates, when it comes to prescription drugs and all that.

So this legislation, man, it's been through the wringer.

And we saw y'all on the Senate floor, some real sausage being mad right there, you know, out there yesterday here.

So talk about what happened with this bill and how y'all came to a resolution.

You know, that there's been really four hard weeks of work put in behin the scenes by by Senator Butler.

Senator Beasley, Senator Stutz and Senator Jones had some work going on, two weeks ago or three weeks ago.

I think, to dream.

Gardens.

Excuse me, Mr. Pro-Tem, but I'll ask that Senator Bell, do a little, what's the word?

I'm looking for a mediator.

A little mediation between the two.

Try to come to one bill, and out of that, his staff has taken and we've sat down and we've worked through the one bill.

We got down to where we came t the floor today with the bill.

We had some amendments being offered up that, but we're we had one that was rejected and we had one that, ended up being withdrawn and bringing another one in and that we had some, some issues with that on and one individual, amendment.

So we had a little conversation.

Senator Singleton, I visit on the microphon for a little while, while the, while the, the sausage was being made in the corner.

And we came to a resolution and you're correct.

I think it was unanimous, with the exception of, Senator Weaver, who had t abstain because of, the family.

Family issues, not issues, but family.

Yeah.

Well I found that really fascinating.

And it was fun to watch because so much of what happens in the House and the Senate is kind of worked out, right.

Y'all kind of work it out behind the scenes or in committee or whatever.

But y'all are righ there on the floor and you know, that's the first of a number of, bills we're going to see on the issue of health care.

You've got the whole alpha, plan coming up second half a session.

So talk about how y'all, as a caucus go about deliberating thorny issues like that, because, I mean, there got to be everybody's got their own viewpoints and everything but you'll try to stay united.

How does how do y'all go about those deliberations always we we have our caucus meetings on Tuesdays typically when we get into town and if we need to after that and then be able to be able to do that afterwards if we have to.

But we have conversation and around the room, we try to work out those issues in that room.

We get that done.

We've got some folks that, might be strong willed and want to add one direction, and it's a matter of putting them together.

And let's talk this out.

Let's work this out and make sure we can do this.

And it's better to do it before you get to the floor, because sometimes, sometimes things don't work out on the floor as you want them to.

So it's going to have that family discussion first.

Have that family discussion first.

If necessary, close the doors and excuse staff and have another family discussion.

So interesting.

Well, y'all got some decisions to make in the second half of the session.

We all get back the House this week has been moving that the tax cut legislation right.

Yes, sir.

Grocery tax accelerating that some retiree taxes and things like that.

But also you know, speaking with Leader Daniels, he wants that overtime tax, either renewed or made permanent.

That's a big decision, right?

It's a huge decision.

But how are we all going to go about.

So that'll be an interesting question we've got to have.

And that'll be some more sausage that'll be made.

You know they're going to send those tax credits up to us.

And that with the over contact, it's going to be close to a half $1 million of tax credits.

And to be honest with you, we can't do all of it.

I don't think so.

You know we probably will look at focus.

I can imagine us focusing on grocery tax.

It seems to impact more people.

So I think we will probably head in that direction and reduce the grocery tax continue to work towards that.

Well it's interesting that you put it that way because you say you can't do it all.

And I think that bears explaining a little bit because look everybody loves tax cuts.

Everybody would like to pay less in taxes.

But where these taxes go it's revenu to run the government to go to the taxes.

You're talking about mostly to school education.

Right?

Right.

So you know, you you want your tax cut.

We also don't want cuts to education.

So is it is it incumbent upon you all to try to explain that to constituents to say, look, we've got to have money to actually function schools and government.

It's not only i it incumbent for us to do that, it's important that we make sure everybody understands we can't do that.

We've we've cut taxes, we've cut a bunch of taxes since we've been here.

And in the last several years, with 1% rate.

And and in the past, when Senator Marsh was her the last couple of years of his.

Well, we've got some taxes.

And I heard a number this might say close to $1 billion.

It does sound off.

And conversation the other night.

This is some more.

We just got to figure out wha fits in the package just right.

And then how much money do we have that we can cut.

Yeah.

Well that's interesting.

And that'll be a another thin that you'll have to figure out in the second half of the session.

Anything else coming up i the second half of the session?

I'm wondering about the budgets.

When might we see the education budget, the general fund budget, start moving?

I think once we get back from break you'll see the education budget maybe from come up from to that, go down to the, to the House, from the Senate and the, the general fund come up.

I think you see that in the first week when we get back, cell phone bans fail.

The excuse me, cell phone, school by and free schools will come back.

There's a couple other little odds and ends that might be in there.

Two that we might have looked.

We're not done with the PBM bill for sure.

It'll come back to the Senate and probably amended in some capacity.

Not to mention the Alpha Health plan and the blue House.

If it if it if the, the speaker is abl to work out some sort of deal, but it'll probably come to us.

Yeah.

I guess that's in committee right now.

I don't know if it's in committee.

Yeah.

I think they've been working behind the scenes to try to eliminate all the questions and answer all the questions that are associated with it right now, probably a substitute coming at some point.

And I do want to get into that issue.

Dive in with Alpha with the other opponents of the bill and everything to really give a good explanation because that's very complicated.

It is a complicated bill.

Yes, sir.

What would have to happen for you to consider this a successful session from the majority standpoint in the Senate?

Well, you know, the only thing we have to do constitutionally is budgets.

But then will we will definitely get those.

But I think we've had a pretty successful session already with taking care of, what is a woman?

The Veterans Resource Center, the real arm of the Veterans Act.

We've I think we've had a pretty successful session already.

There'll be some more things to come.

Yeah, we're definitely going to be paying attention while I've got you.

It's March Madness.

You got your, You got your bracket, you got your final four.

Who's your who's in your final four?

You know, I got my bracket, but I had it down.

Fill it out yet then and, you know, beloved to Alabama Aubur rematch somewhere along the way.

But, you know, I think Florida and Duke look awful tough.

They do.

And I think the way it works out is that if Auburn and all that would do face each other it would be in the championship.

I don't know if the state can handle, the excitement that would happen there that might bring up the whole idea of sports betting.

You're though.

Okay.

Well I didn't even think about that.

We may see some.

I mean, who knows?

But we could see gambling come up with the second half of the session.

Any thoughts about that?

There's some conversation going on behind the scenes, I think, too, about being counted.

You know, with the losses not the loss of Senator Rubio, with Senator Reid stepping down to become secretary, read that's a yes vote that has gone.

So I'm not we didn't need one vote.

We're now we need to.

So, we'll see if what what happens with that?

Yeah.

How easy.

It wouldn't be a session if we weren't at least talking about the possibility of gambling.

I think there's only been one time.

And that was the fourth year of my first quadrennial that we did not, did not, have a conversation about gaming.

Yeah, well, it's it something's going to happen.

We'll just wait to see.

We're out of time.

Senator, thanks again for coming on the show.

We'll see you when we get back.

I appreciate it.

Thank you.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Joining me next is Stat Representative Anthony Daniels, minority leader for the Alabama House of Representatives.

Mr. leader thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me.

It's been a while.

Yeah, I know it has.

It's good to catch up.

We're here at the halfway point, a little past the halfway point, technically, with the 16th day being dispensed with.

So another spring brea coming up at this halfway point.

Can you kind of tell me how session has gone so far from your perspective as the leader in th for the Democrats in the House?

Well, I think it's been, been an okay session.

You know, right now there's a lot of uncertainty, especially around taxes.

A lot of the conversations have been really focused a lot more on taxes the last couple of weeks and cutting taxes in light of what' going on at the federal level.

You know, we're trying to make some adjustments at the state level and have some conversations about what what can we do to help, Alabamians.

And so it forces you to have those conversations in light of what' going on at the federal level.

So I think it's an all and also okay session.

There are a couple bills that we certainly, were opposed to, that you know, the police immunity, expande immunity is certainly something that we were opposed to, that we, you know, we fought hard, but I will tell you to the credit of the majority, they did work with us, chairman, Reynolds and speaker.

They worked with us on a lot of, from where the bill started to where it ended up i the governor's office as well.

So we certainly want to credit them for being flexible, working with those money.

And we know that there are certain we're certain sticking point that there's no way for us to be abl to kind of come close together.

It was clea that there was dialog going on, at least like to see that even if you can't, you know, 100% agree.

I want to ask you about this.

You mentioned the federal level, the Doge thing has bee a big deal on the federal level, right?

Department of Government efficiency Elon Musk, man, he's ruffling all kinds of feathers.

But it's also trickled down t the states, including Alabama.

You've had you know, Republicans say, hey, we've got our own little Doge system.

Y'all had a press conference saying, hey, we've got some Doge ideas as well.

Talk about what your message was.

In terms of that efficiency in government.

Well, we felt that, you know, anything that's $50 million or more, that's not in the K-12 funding or higher education an should have be dynamic scored.

We should dynamic score it to make certain that we're, it's effective, not just waiting until we've already given the the money, but to start testing in dynami scoring it from implementation to execution.

Explain what kind of what that means for our viewers.

So dynamic scorin is where you measure basically measuring the impact tha the dollars are going to have.

So you're looking at the program and you're saying okay, you say you're going to do A, B, C and D and you know, have you when you star and you're starting the program now in the implementation of the program, have you where are you like we're measuring along the way instead of waiting until the dollars are gone and then say, oh it did work or it didn't work.

So being more better stewards of taxpayers dollars and looking at the impact in a different way, you know, engaging a think tank at a third party thin tank to be able to look at ways to, to in an unbiased way to measure progress and see whether or not meeting the goals is it designed to increase workforce participation?

Is it doing it?

And what adjustments need to be made?

Or as we're going i looking back five years later?

Absolutely.

Okay.

That's interesting.

Well, you've mentioned taxes.

Tax cut.

It was tax cut wee in the House of Representatives.

You know, passed a bunch of tax cuts, including that, you know, accelerated grocer tax, allowing locals all that.

We've covered it, but you have spoken out your overtime income tax cut is going to expire this year if y'all don't take action on it.

And you said, look, we need to, you know, renew this make it permanent and all that.

It doesn't look like anything's moving at the time.

So what's your message to the majority in terms of that overtime income tax cut expiring?

Understanding that these other tax cuts are sort of meant to replace it in a way.

Yeah.

I was very disappointed.

The tax cuts that, you know, think about this.

We're talking about one cents on a dollar.

You're not talking when you look at a, you say oh, let's cut the grocery tax.

That sounds good, but we're cutting it one, since that's on cents on the dollar right now.

And then thi if this bill passes the Senate, it it'll be the in $0.02.

And so when you see the cost o goods and services increasing, you're telling me you're saying I mean $0.98 on the dollar.

That's not a real savings.

I mean, who's who's there' no one to call me and say, hey, thank you for saving m $0.02 on the on my on my bread or on my, you know, a pizza can or whatever you.

And so I think that realistically, we have to do we have to figure out a way to make investments.

I would take those dollars that would have been proposed for a cut on the grocery tax, the $0.01.

If we're not goin to cut the entire grocery tax.

Then I think that we're wasting our time.

So let's use those dollars to drive down costs.

And if you use those dollars to make investments in our agriculture industry, whether it's whatever products it is that we're at, we're looking to, to get to to market that competitio drives down costs until there's a better a larger savings long term for that family.

If you take that approach, as opposed to cutting one cents on a dollar, just talking about your overtime because that you're talking about productivit from the over.

Yeah, absolutely.

So so what I'm saying is that the grocery tax, unless you're cutting it entirety, $0.01 cutting it $0.01 is not making going to make a difference.

You're telling me on every dollar you're saving me $0.02 and then $10.

You're saving me.

You know, $10.

You're saving me.

You know, $0.20, right?

I mean, let's let's really loo at, where we are in right now.

That's not going to help a family.

What will help families is cutting, the, you know, from 5% to 4% in the first 40 hours or cutting, extending the overtime tax.

Cut it.

Looking at ways to help retirees.

Those are things that are actually, truly putting more money in the pockets of Alabamians, but it also yielding more money into the budget.

The grocery tax does it.

Let's make the investment in areas that's going to drive down calls, as opposed to a $0.01 or $0.02 on a dollar cut.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

The you know, the argument from the majorit is, you know, that grocery tax reaches basically every Alabama because everybody buys groceries versus the overtime only goes to those wage workers who do participate in overtime.

How do you respond to that.

I would say that's not accurate because folks that are on public assistance don't pay income tax on groceries anyway.

I mean, taxes on groceries anyway.

So that is not this is not necessarily going to touch everyone.

Okay.

And so I think that they're they're they're really mis misunderstanding the point ther because that there's a segment of the population that doesn't pay taxes on necessity item groceries in general that are on Snap benefits.

So there's no taxes taken out.

So that's inaccurate.

The other piece o that is Anthony, you don't need a cut on the grocery tax, right, from an income standpoint.

But there are middle America middl out of the middle out of Bama, and poor Alabama that may need it more so than I would.

But is that tax reall worth the time, or should we be making our investments in other places to drive down cost overall in order to have a bigger impact for that same population that we're trying to reach until this?

Let's if we're going to b factual here, let's be factual.

The grocery tax itself, I want to see it eliminated.

But realistically, I would rather see the calls drop down on the goods and services and create more competition so that it's more of a bang for my bucket and more of a savings for me as an Alabama.

And then with the additiona dollars from the tax cuts from the overtime is putting more money in my pocket.

So that I can buy more, I can purchase more.

The purchasing power is a lot greater.

So I think that oftentimes when we think about cuts, we like to hear the word, bu we're not analyzing the impact.

And that' why dynamic scoring is important is being able to dynamic score less.

Dynamic scored the first one since until the average family how much money they've saved.

You can't talk about the families that are on Snap benefits because they're already there until there's less.

If we're really want to, do we really want to do something less?

Do something.

And you can say there's a lot of things that in if we we drive down the cost of groceries in general that impacts everyone on items in general.

If w drive down the cost of products and services in general, that that helps everyone.

There's certainly a conversation going on all around the country real quick.

What would make a successful like we got another half a session coming up.

What would be what needs to happen to what you consider to be a successful session for you and your caucus?

I think that extending overtime tax is not just a success for my caucus.

I think it's been a success for both caucuses, I think is a success for the work.

Men and women that are out there, you saw yesterday, there are a lot of people visiting the state houses, working in manufacturing across the state of Alabama, talking to their representatives about how this overtime, has helped them.

A lady there's work in a paper mill.

She talked about how, you know, you know, there's mandatory, overtime in general i not a choice in their factory.

So therefore thi these extra dollars has made it more of an incentive for people to work overtime, but also keeping up increasing the productivity reduction schedule, which made their company more profitable and pay more.

They their company pays more in taxes.

So it's yielding a return.

The other piece for me is looking at ways to to help retirees, retirees.

I think that, Representative Garrett was on to something around helping retirees is on their first $12,000 of their retirement benefits, and I certainly applaud him on that particular effort.

And I think that we just got to do more to drive down calls because at some point, all the spending that we're doing, if it's not impacting the pockets and impacting families and impacting the calls, then what are we spending for?

What type of returns can we legitimately say that we're getting?

We're not.

It's going to be an interesting second.

After the session.

Everybody gets a little breather next week.

I think we're all grateful for that.

Before I let you go, it's March Madness.

What, who you got, who you got in your final four?

Who?

You got one of the tournament?

Well, politically, of course, Alabama an Alabama state now.

Yeah, but you other and go show your bracket.

So I realistically I'm a basketball player and former basketball player and so I'd look at things a little bit different.

I actually do have Duke and Michigan State, kind of toward the end there.

I have Auburn.

I had Auburn, there's a lot of injuries that I see from Auburn, I see and Alabama in Alabama.

And so those injuries really concerns me when is realisticall making a decision, realistically on how far we can go.

Brohm has been amazing.

The other players on the team have been amazing, but I sense that he's nursing an injury and his performance is not quite like it wa at the beginning of the season, and I think other teams are going are recognizing that, and so they'll put o a lot of double and triple teams to kind of slow him down.

And once they slow him down, they're forced everyone else to beat them.

And so and I think for Alabama I think the challenge there is our guard has to, to kind of come up with some picks.

I don't think that hi penetrating and getting to the, the getting to the, paint with six, 11, seven footers down there, i makes it more difficult for him.

And I've seen that he's challenged with that.

And so I think that if we'r going to make some adjustments, it has to be him coming off more picks and getting a clear shot from the outside in order for them to really have a chance down the stretch.

So we could just have a whole interview about basketball.

Yeah.

Duke and Michigan State, those.

That's a those are high percentage picks for an NCAA tournament any year really.

But look, we're out of time.

Thanks again for coming on the show.

We'll see you when you get back.

Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

We'll be right back.

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The archives identifies, preserves, and makes accessible records and artifacts of enduring historical value to the state.

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That's our show for this week.

Thanks for watching.

As we mentioned the legislature is on break next week.

So our nightly coverage will pause.

Capitol Journal will return at the same time next week when my colleague Randy Scott will be your host while I'm traveling in Washington for our Capital Journal team, I'm Todd Stacy.

We'll see you next time.