It's.

From our state house studio in Montgomery.

I'm Todd Stacey, welcome to Capitol Journal.

What a difference a week makes.

This time last week, the legislature had just completed a special session preparing for the possibility that the Supreme Court would allow the state to revert back to a congressional map passed in 2023, essentially gaining a House seat for Republicans.

On Monday, that possibility became a reality.

The High Court vacated lower court orders mandating a congressional map that include two majority minority districts, paving the way for Alabam to move forward with its plans.

The next day, Governor Kay Ivey called a special primary election for congressional districts one, two, six, and seven.

Under the new map.

As a reminder, on the left is the map originally passed by the legislature in 2023 and that will be used in the special election called for August 11th.

On the right is the current congressional map that was drawn by a special master.

It will cease to be unless the courts rule.

Otherwise.

The Supreme Court ruling wa a victory for Attorney General Steve Marshall, who aggressively pursued this legal strategy in the wake of the Louisiana decision striking down race based mapmaking.

He said the ruling returns the authority to draw maps to the people's elected representatives.

Let's be clear about what happened here.

Alabama originally drew its maps around geography and communities the Gulf Coast the Black Belt, the Wiregrass, and a federal court punished us for it.

Today, the Supreme Court vindicated the state's long held position.

Now, the power to draw Alabama's maps goes back to the people's elected representatives.

That's our legislature.

With all these rulings, the special session, different maps and now different elections.

There's bound to be confusion among the electorate.

Secretary of State Wes Allen this week held a press conference in the capital to explain the situatio and urge Alabamians to go vote on Tuesday.

The May 19th primar includes many important races, including numerous statewide constitutional offices.

Local races.

Stat legislative and judicial races, as well as statewide constitutional amendments.

All of these will proceed as normal and the results will be tabulated.

Canvased and certified.

Certain congressional races will be handled differently in accordance with the governor's proclamation.

Congressional districts one, two, six, and seven are affected.

Votes cas in those congressional races on May the 19th will be tabulated and made public.

However, however, per act 2026 612 votes for those races will be void for purposes of determining the party nominee.

Per Governor Ivey's proclamation.

There will be a special primary election on Tuesday, August the 11th, 2026 for Congressional districts one, two, six and seven.

Absolutely is worth it.

We're talking about the representation of the state of Alabama.

So absolutely it was worth it, for me and, the state and Attorney General, Steve Marshall.

It's important to note that in its ruling, the Supreme Court remanded the case back down to the Northern District of Alabama.

That three judge panel still needs to make its own ruling, and the various partie have made their cases this week.

State leaders expect their ruling to reflect the Supreme Court's new jurisprudence, and they're hoping for a rulin on Monday before Election Day.

Well, revertin back to the legislatively drawn map is a big blo for Congressman Shamari figures, who represents Alabama's second district that was significantly redrawn by the courts.

Capitol Journal's Alex Angle caught up with congressman figures this week to se how he's handling that upheaval and what his plans are.

Here's her story from Capitol Hill.

Less than two years after winning his seat, Democratic Congressman Shamari figures is in danger of losing it.

In the wake of the Supreme Court ruling that weakened the Voting Rights Act.

Alabama Republicans want to use a 2023 map that would reshape south Alabama boundary lines.

In doing so, they hope to flip figure's seat red.

But he argues that that will dilute the power of black voters.

1 in 3 people in the state of Alabama, for all intents and purposes, is African-American.

And to say that that group deserves no legitimate opportunity to have their voice heard in the form of representation at the federal level or any level of government, that is insane to me.

But Republicans are forging ahead.

The United States Supreme Court delivered a huge win for the state of Alabama and its voters.

Senator Tommy Tuberville, who is running for governor, has been a big proponent of changing the map to help Republicans.

Alabama is a ruby red state, whether the liberals like it or not.

A three judge panel, which previously struck down the 2023 congressional map because they found it was racially discriminatory, is currently reviewing the redistricting case.

So figures remains confident that the current map, which includes two Democratic held seats, will stay in place this year.

The facts obviously have not changed, and we fully expect the court to to issue a favorable ruling.

But if Alabama is allowed t implement the Republican redrawn map, Biggers is not taking anything off the table.

He won't say either way if he'd conside running in a different district, even on that's favorable to Republicans.

We also understand the legitimate possibility that a decision may have to be reached regarding a regarding the 2023 map, and if that happens, we'll we'll make that decision at that time.

Under the 2023 map, Alabama's delegation would likely have six Republicans and just one Democrat.

Reporting in Washington, Alex Engle, Capital Journal.

Thank you Alex.

This week marked the 65th anniversary of the Freedom Riders.

The group of civil rights activists who rode interstate busses to Alabama and other southern states in the 1960s to fight for racial equality here in the capital city.

A celebration was held at th historic Greyhound bus station, where a 1961 riders were beaten by a mob.

Capitol journal's Randy Scott was on hand for the occasion and has this story.

Busses were vital for people needing transportation in the 1950s and 1960s.

Alabama.

They were also a big part of the Civil Rights movement as that era's fight for equality took off.

People worked for better treatment and in many cases were arrested for doing so.

But they stood their ground.

And the civil rights era changed the landscape of America.

Years later, some of those Freedom Riders returned to Montgomery for the 65th observance of the Freedom Rides, a time where change was everywhere.

Just ask Joe Mulholland.

It was riding together, black and white, going into all the facilities along the way together, which the Supreme Court said was the law.

And we were trying to get the state governments and the Kennedy administration to enforce the law.

Miss Mulholland is one of the original Freedom Riders who got to experience the things people read about in history books detailing the civil rights struggles.

We rode until we got arrested.

Then we lived at the taxpayers expense.

But it was on death row or some penitentiary that took care of fre room and board for the summer.

Those exploits allowed changes to happen, creating a better future for this nation, she says.

The theme fo this event is passing the baton.

The bato being symbolic of the struggles of Freedom Riders went through in the 1960s.

Now, 60 plus years later, they want to pass on that courage they developed to the new generation to help them understand and chart their own course.

Today, it's importan because we've got a lot to learn from our elders.

Our theme this week as we've been traveling through Alabama celebrating the 65th anniversary, has been passing the baton.

And these are our elders, our heroes who have run their race and who have taught us what it means to live with courage and conviction and determination and resilience.

And now is the time for us to receive that baton and keep running it forward.

Tyler Thomas is the artistic director for the musical we share some day appearing during this observance.

She says the goal is to bridge the generations, bringing young people up close and in person.

But those who marched and i some cases wrote those busses.

It's unbelievable.

We have had over this past week, I think, upwards of 15 Freedom Riders join us and more if you include their descendants who have also joined us.

I stand before you today as a son of Doctor Bernard Lafayette, junior pioneer, civil rights strategist, Freedom Rider, educator and leading advocate of King and nonviolent reconciliation who helped shaped and institutionalize the philosophy of nonviolence social change around the world.

Messages for the next generation to build on.

They got to decide what problem, bothers them the most.

Get together with friends who agree with them.

Get a direct plan of action, and always have a lawyer's phone number with you in Montgomery.

Randy Scott, Capitol Journal.

Thank you.

Randy.

Time to head to the beach, Alabama continues investing in its state park system, and one of the latest projects is now open along the Gulf Coast.

Officials in Gulf Shores this week celebrated the opening of a major RV resort and expansion at Gulf State Park.

That state leaders say is now the largest state park operated campground in the country.

Capital Journal's Jeff Sanders reports.

What was once rolling greens and fairways at Gulf State Park is now home to a brand new RV resort along Alabama's Gulf Coast.

State and local leaders gathered to officially open the new expansion featuring more than 100 premium RV campsites to cater to today's modern RV traveler.

Chris Blankenship is the commissioner of the Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.

We wanted to make this really first class, you know, for the bigger RVs.

We call it an executive campground but it's got the big campsites.

It's got the 50 amp service, the sewer, you know, all the amenities.

But there's more to the new RV park than just campsites.

The new resort include a zero entry pool, splash pad, playground, pickleball courts, putting green bathhouses, and access to the park's backcountry trail system.

Officials say the campground already stays heavily booked throughout the year, and the additional sites were needed to help meet growing demand.

With the addition of these 100 plus campsites here at this campground, it makes the Gulf State Park campground the largest stat park campground in the country.

So we have over 600 campsites here, so there's a place for you.

The project is part of Alabama's broader $85 million state parks investment package, approved by voters in 2022.

Baldwin County State Representative Frances Hoke Jones says the project is another major addition for tourism and outdoor recreation along Alabama's Gulf Coast, and executive Campground.

I mean, this is just an executive decision destination that we have here.

All the team that has worked so hard on this.

It just brings us to a whole nother level.

State leaders say additiona upgrades are also continuing at parks across Alabama, including projects at Key Haw Lake.

Lurleen and Joe Wheeler state parks.

Reporting for Capitol Journal.

I'm Jeff Sanders.

Thank you Jeff.

Governor Kay Ivey this week announced that the state is officially kicking off its America 250 celebratio next week at the state Capitol.

The event is this coming Thursday May 21st, starting at 11 a.m.. The governor and other state leaders will unveil a massive 250th edition of the American flat that will hang between the column of the Capitol all summer long.

The program will feature a musical performance by Randy Owen of Alabama and a flyover by For F-35 jets from the 187th Fighter Wing.

The event is open to the public and no tickets are required.

That's going to be fun.

We'll be there.

Hope you can make it as well.

We'll take a quick break and be back with this week's guests.

You can watch past episodes of Capital Journal online anytime at Alabama Public Television's website.

App tv.org.

Click on the online video tab on the main page.

You can also connect with Capital Journal and link to past episodes on Capital Journal's Facebook page.

Launched in retaliatio for the attack on Creek warriors by territorial militia at Burnt Corn Creek on August 30th, 1813, a force of about 700 Creek Indians destroyed Fort Mims in the first major battl of the Creek War of 1813 to 14.

The massacre of civilians rally U.S.

armies under the cry Remembe Fort Mims and the ensuing Creek War culminated in the Creek Nation.

Subsequent session of over 21 million acres of land.

Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Join me.

Next is political columnist Steve Flowers.

Steve thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me, Todd.

Well, look, it's election time.

Election right around the corner.

I want to get your take on all things politics.

Let's start, I guess, at the top of the ticket.

And that is the governor's race.

It's really been a, I don't know, an energetic affair because Tuberville scared off the field.

You've got Doug Jones on the Democratic side.

Is that going to be the contest in November?

Is it?

Is it pretty?

Well, clear at this point where I think Trump was goin to be the prohibitive favorite to win the Republican nomination, probably the top vote getter?

You know, it's not a foregone conclusion that Jones will be the Democratic nominee.

There's been a big, big split in the Democratic Party in the state.

Joe Rage group and Doug Jones group on different sides.

I think Jones prevails, though, and I think it'll be a tough Will Jones race in the fall.

But it's not a foregone.

But I think that probably is still 60, 40 Republican.

I think that you could you know, do better than that.

But I don't think I think 60, 40 I think 12 would be next governor.

Yeah.

Well let's talk about this big U.S.

Senate race.

You know, an open seat for the U.S.

Senate Obviously, it's Tuberville seat.

Really, you know, a lot of ads ou there, really strong candidates, but there can only be two that make it to the runoff.

I think we're assuming that it goes to the runoff.

What are you seeing in that race based on your observations and the polling, where when the race began then you and I talked about it in like an obvious two man race between, first District Congressman Barry Moore and Attorney General Steve Marshall, who both been in politics for about eight years, and their office or longer.

But the club for growth got in the you know this not a muscle car and dark money, national money, extremely right wing, extremely busy businessman.

Then, successful business people have done this all over the country that they're the phenomenon of this year's campaign.

They got behind Barry Moore and I suspect, through thir party sources and other things.

Todd, they've outspent Marshall and the other ones, probably 10 to 1, which makes him a prohibitive favorite.

But the big surprise this whol election is young Jared Hudson.

I would, contend that you may see him run very close to Moore.

He's moving up in the polls.

He's been the phenomenon of this entire campaign.

And my if it's any surprise he's going to be a surprise to you tonight.

He's I think h may be right on Moore's heels.

Interesting.

I think he's in a runoff with Moore.

Well, I'm I'm.

That's what we're wondering, right?

Who who makes it into that runoff would be more because our polling showed that if you take leaners into account, Steve Marshall and Jared Hudson were actually tied.

One thing I'm looking at is, I think there's no question that Moore has dominate as he met with club for growth the airwaves.

Marshall hasn't so much but he's gotten a lot of earned media over the last couple of weeks because of all this congressional, you know, redistricting and all that ton of earned media.

So I wonder if that, plays into account.

Let's look at the other races, this race for attorney general, we've talked about it before, might be the hottest race on the on the ballot three way race.

Jay Mitchell, Kathryn Robertson, Pamela Casey, again, likely run of because nobody's really surged.

But what are you seein in this race now?

Be a runoff.

Early on, like Jay Mitchel and Kathryn Robertson would be in a close race and will be in a runoff.

I still think that is what happens.

However, the second surprise and the one surprising can is Pam Casey, the D.A.

in Blunt County.

She's going to run a really strong race.

Strong, if anybody suspects the same way.

I'm looking at the Senate race, the two stars who have arisen in this race, who may be watchin a Jared Hutch in the Senate race and Pam Case in the attorney general's race, she could make the runoff instead of Jamie Mitchell.

Catherine Robson, that scenario is simila to what I saw several years ago in the governor's race, when Tim James and Randy Byrne were the favorites and they beat each other up with negative ads all the way up to the last minute.

And the third person was Robert Bentley, and he's benefiting from those votes.

She's in the same boat.

The nets say Catherine Robertson and Jay Mitchell keep beating each other up and going negative to the last day.

Those votes aren' going to Robertson and Mitchell.

They're going to Pam Casey because she's got a real positive ad, and quite frankly, she's probably the best qualified one running.

Well, it's interesting you say that because I was shown a mailer that she put out that was essentially saying, hey, I'm not attacking anybody.

You know, that's the that's the other guys.

And so you're right, that, that, that 2010 race that there's, echoes of that.

But it's it is fascinating because it matters who the attorney general is.

These are three very qualified candidates.

But yeah, you're right tha those those two are going well.

I get I get asked that quit often that I like that Pam Casey and they believe it or not, they know she's a prosecutor and she's had some experience.

They know who she is.

Yeah, that's one to watch.

Lieutenant governor again, we don't we don't think about the lieutenant governor on a daily basis, as you might the governor or Senate or something like that.

But this has been a crowded field.

It may be a surprising result on the last polling.

It's not the Trump and Dorsey that got that is leading right now with West Allen, the secretary of state, with Allen is been the most impressive polling person I've seen the entire field.

I think with wins that race only.

But I think he's going to do better than you think.

On the first night, he's like a he' hanging there like a rusty nail.

He he's worked hard.

He's not he can sho he's a good retail politician.

He's got a base of support.

He's also got two home areas.

You know, he grew up in Tuscaloosa.

His dad is a very popular state senator that year early on.

And so he's got there he's got the Pike County and Wiregrass where he was probate judge of Pike County an representative in Pike County.

And he's known in the Wiregrass.

He's got a good grassroots organization.

Speaking of Wiregrass West that has been the most impressive run and one most impressive races I've seen.

And I think he ultimately wins that race.

I think he will leave, but I think John Wall will make the runoff with him because of how much money is being spent on media, through the club for growth and, the Trump endorsement.

And he's got had good ads.

So I think wall run run him a second.

But I think that'll be in a runoff on June 16th.

We'll talk about that dynamic though, because all right, it's almost like you're running for the playoffs.

Right.

Because you don't want to spend all your money.

You want to save a little bit, I guess.

So you can run some ads towards the runoff.

So how does that play?

I've always heard that th the second place finisher closes a little bit in the runoff and things like that.

What's a good strategy for entering a runoff?

Well, you got to be able to raise money quickly to get back on the air.

And I think i one of those people I mentioned, if Jared Hudson makes the runoff against Barry Moore in the Senate race, I think you'll see some real big mone come in here for Jared Hudson.

Washington was an Alabama was they will see a winner in that race.

They will see an upset.

And the same be true of Pam Casey, the Alabama business communit who's been behind Jay Mitchell.

But if if, if Pam Casey makes the runoff and Jay does not that actually the business community in Alabama bankrolling her.

So I think the surpris candidates will have the money with that has done a good job raising money.

So he'll be able to match wall in a runoff and he'll lead significantly.

One thing helps West to enter the race that's a eight person race and him being first on the ballot, it's worth about 5 or 10 points, as you know from the years.

And without having the first name a yeah.

Yeah, that's that's right.

Look, well I've got this all this drama over the congressional map, the, the Supreme Court, the special session, you know, matter of fact, you talked about West Allen.

He had a press conference this week reminding people to vote.

With all this drama going o and all this kind of confusion, do we risk having a low turnout election, especially in some of these congressional districts?

I think he's going to be a low turnout.

I think the turnout is going to be dismal because of that is confusing.

And plus Tocqueville's had no challenge.

You know, the governor's race would have brought a lot of attention to the race.

And he had him run ads.

So, you know, I think there's going to be a low turnout.

And that does confuse.

And, you know, even it alread been said that your votes don't count in the first, second, sixth or seventh Congressional District.

You know so Gabe Palmer's on the ballot.

But so what if you vote for him?

Materials.

Who's on the ballot?

You vote for her.

Doesn't matter because they will have all gone wrong again.

Jake Paul's got to run again in the first district.

So it's going to be a really interesting low turnout because of them.

Well, speaking of the map, you know, it's a we're going back to that what the legislature passed, it' actually never been used before.

So assuming all that happens we got to hear from the court.

But there's a lot of tal about on the right about, hey, let's make it seven zero.

Let's make sure it's a completely Republican delegation from Alabama.

And that might that might happen.

A lot of people think Will comes in that'll that'll happen.

But just from working up there.

And Marissa Coleman made this point on the show last week.

Even with a heavily Republican delegation sometimes it's been beneficial, to have a Democrat on the delegation, especially when the Democrat there' a Democrat in the white House.

I remember when, the Obama White House Terry Sewell, was instrumental in helping Alabama do some of that.

What's your perspective on that?

Well, I've written about tha when I perceived six months ago, when Supreme Court sent the message that they might strike down the Voting Rights Act.

And, I said, I think if we redraw the lines, which they've done and it'll be 6 to 1 as passed the legislature last week, I think six was the right thing to do for several reasons.

First of all, it's the right thing to do.

You got 27% of your population is African-American.

They tend to vote Democratic.

Overwhelmingly.

They it's not fair to have only only one.

They not more than one congressional issue.

I think they'd all be one Democratic congressional district.

But going further than that for the state, say you need to have what you just said, a Democrat in your delegation who has some kind of avenue, a pathway, a conduit to the white House, because you may very well have a Democratic presence, three years from now, you may very well probabl will have a Democratic Congress, House of Representatives, come November.

And she is in a leadership position.

So you're almost cutting, you know, just wash your face by not letting us have one.

Can Democratic congressional districts.

Oh, six ones right thing.

Do you know, sometimes Partizan names and state.

You know, what makes sense for the state don't always align.

Well, Steve, we're out of time.

But thanks for coming on, and I guess we'll see you o election night.

Thank you sir.

We'll be right back.

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And you.

Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Joining me next is Anthony Latham, director of the Alabama Legislative Services Agency.

Arnie thanks for coming on the show.

Yeah, Todd, always great to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

Been a crazy couple of weeks.

It has.

It's been an interesting few weeks.

I want to get to the statehouse.

Stuff in a minute, but the reason I want to have you on is we have these.

We're talking a lot about the election, big election, urging people to go vote on May 19th, despite everything else going on.

But it's not just candidates on the ballot.

It's these constitutional amendments.

And I was hoping that you could help explain that.

You did that a couple of years ago when we had the big, you know, rewrite the ballot.

But let's start with, you know, so I gues you kind of flip over the ballot and you vote for the constitutional amendment.

Let's start with the Niles law.

Just remember having to do with bail.

What does this do?

Absolutely.

So.

So, Todd, you know, most of your viewers will remember in 2022, we passed a constitutiona amendment known as a nice law.

And it was in response to, obviously, the very tragic situation of Anni Blanchard.

And before that, the Alabam Constitution had a presumption that a person who is pending criminal tria should, should get out on bail.

And and obviously, there were, you know, if a person was a flight risk, if they were, you know, there were factors that could prevent that.

But there wa that constitutional presumption.

And so in 2022 the voters ratified and I as law and created kind of a an exception to that presumption where judges could deny bail for persons pending trial on kind of the most serious of crimes.

Murder First-Degree rape First-Degree sodomy, kidnaping, human trafficking, those sorts of crimes.

Obviously that law, you know most people feel like has worked pretty well.

And how it's been implemented since 2022, but there was a desire to maybe catch a few more categories.

So, s so the Constitutional Amendment Amendment one of the statewide proposed next week, would expand it to include conspiracy to commit murder, solicitation to to commit murder, as well as a handful of other crimes, including shooting into an occupied dwelling or shooting into an occupied car or vehicle.

You know, and the like.

So, so kind of add a handful more crimes that didn't make that initial K in 2022.

But the the legislature felt like it would be appropriate to add to that list.

Interesting.

And I do remember that, push a couple of years ago after the Aniah Blanchard thing, because the suspect, now the convicted murderer, was out on bail and had been, had been accused I guess, of some violent crimes.

Everybody thought, well, goodness gracious why was that person out on bail?

And there was a constitutional issue.

So, okay, so a yes vote i for adding more of these crimes.

That's correct.

Excuse grams.

Okay.

And of course, it's not automatic, right.

There still has to be a judge who exercises discretion in looking at the totality of the circumstances, but a yes vote would add this list of crimes to the to a judge's consideration, and an ability to deny bail pending trial for for charges on that list of crimes.

Interesting.

So that'll be amendment one.

Amendment two has to do with district attorneys.

I was having trouble kind of reading the the language.

And this has to do with the district attorneys and their pay.

What's going on here?

Yeah.

So so that's kind of a you know, we've talked about the Constitution a lot, Todd.

Right.

And you know that there's there's a lo of archaic provisions in that.

There's a lot of odds and ends over over 120 plus years.

You know, obviously we have the 2022 Constitution of Alabama, but the core of it is still a lot of provisions that have been in there since the early 1900s, in that 1901 constitution.

There's a number of provisions in the Constitution that deal with how the legislature or appropriate body can set the pay of public officials.

And kind of the default rule is that, the pay of a public official is set for that term of office once they start it.

So you can't increase or decrease the pay of a public official while they're in office.

Over the years, that's led to some issues, particularly for offices like judges and DA's, where the term is six years.

So you have a pretty extended term of office.

And the person while is an elected public official, you know, they're there for all you know, practical purposes, treated more like a state employee in terms of compensation.

You know, there' a set structure, and the like.

And so in 2021, the legislature, tried to, you know, modernize the pay o judges and DA's in particular, you know, try to attract the best and the brightest.

You know, people who've been in practice, for a while.

But the judges got a little bit ahead on that becaus their constitutional provision from when the judicial article was rewritten in the 70s only prevents decreasing their pay.

So, for instance, when the legislature passes a Cola, judges are eligible for that Cola without waiting six years or wheneve they're back up for reelection.

But da da or not.

And so this would put DA's and judges, on par with each other and of course, put it to where DA's pay can't be decreased during their term of office.

But if the legislatur granted a Cola, or if they're, you know, they're trigger to get raises each six years.

So if they started mid-term, they wouldn't have to wait until the full completion of the next election cycle to get the benefit of the statutory increases they're entitled to.

Yeah.

And I realize to viewers it may seem, I don't know, very in the weeds and everything, but that is important.

You talked about attracting the best and brightest.

It's not just judges but we need great prosecutors.

And that's been an issue for a while.

Where, okay, if you're going to leave a lucrative law practice or something, you've got to at least, you know, make some kind of living.

So I do appreciate the, the need for fair compensation and to be eligible for those colas and things like that.

That's right.

Obviously, six years is a lon time to go without any change.

To account for inflation and the like that those Colas are meant to do.

And so this this again it kind of puts them on parity with judges again and hopefully keeps us on the track of making those position attractive for all the reasons you just said that they should be.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well you mentioned the Constitution.

Remind our audience about this process because there are so many times when the legislature actually can't just pass a bill and send it to the governor, and that's that.

You have to have a referendum.

Talk about the differences there and how that process works and why we have so many constitutional amendments on the ballot every time we go vote.

Sure.

So and of course, we're only talking about the two statewide ones.

You know, everybody's going to have their luck.

There's a handful of locals, you know, in the fall, I thin we're going to have close to two dozen local spread around the state.

Right.

And so and so it's really kind of two different reasons.

I mean, one, we've talked about the Constitutio over the years a good bit, but but our Constitution has a lot of very specific provisions.

I mean, I kind of call it the micromanagement of the of the legislative process.

Right?

So, so there are a host of things that if you want to accomplish them, th the people have to agree, right.

The Constitution was structured to give the final say on o important stuff to the people.

And so the process in Alabama for a constitutional amendment, it has to pass both bodies o the legislature with a 3/5 vote.

So a, you know, a beyond a majority.

And then it goes straight to the secretary of state to be put on a ballot and, and voted on.

And it's the same for locals.

A local constitutional amendmen has to be passed by a 3/5 vote by both chambers as well.

So not the normal local bill process where most people abstain.

And then it's voted on in that county.

And of course, you know after 2017 we have a provision that that then has a second vote of the legislature about whether they really believe it's a local issue or not.

You know, there's a lot of local constitutional amendments that if a county approves something is going to affect the surrounding counties, or some would argue even the state more broadly.

And so the legislature can by vote decision and make that get voted on statewide.

And of course, to be ratified, it has to be approved by not only a majority of the voters in that local county, but also a majority of the voters statewide when the legislature triggers that provision.

So it is kind of one of those interesting quirks, in, you know, in the state of Alabama and of course, before we recompiled in 2022, you know, we had almost 800 constitutional amendments that were local in nature.

So you know, only applied to one county or one political subdivision that had been through that process.

Yeah.

Fair to say, we are quirky.

Yes.

Yes, I think so.

Well, I appreciate that because a lot of peopl sometimes will just tend to vote no if they don't understand anything.

So that's why we're tryin to get the word out about these.

We'll look.

Well, I've got you.

I mean, you're in charge of this legislative staff that you have.

I mean, you know, last week was a challenging week for y'all.

We're in this special session on redistricting.

And then there's this storm that comes.

There's a tornado warning.

The alarms go off.

There's flooding all over the place.

I mean, it was a pretty challenging time.

How did y'all make it through?

It was, you know, and I think, Todd, I really want to brag on not only the staff, but the House and Senate staff, right?

I mean, I I think you showed some footage last week of just how chaotic it got in this building, you know, trying to evacuate not only the the body, the Senate that was still in, but the the staff.

That's important as well.

And all the people that were in the gallery, you know, and, and funnel them all through one set of stairwells to get out and as you saw, there were a couple of medical issues, you know, in that evacuation as well.

And so it was a pretty, pretty difficult tim under high stress circumstances.

And despite that, you know, the staff of the Senate and the staff of the House, were able to get that bill transmitted to each other and get committe meetings posted for the next day in the middle of that evacuation, because, of course, back to that quirky constitution.

You know, there's a specific number of calendar days that have to be involved in the passage of a bill.

And so the staff really, really, you know, shown through that process, you know just how professional they were and how they put the process above, frankly, even their own personal safety and speed of evacuation.

So it was a it was a good day.

Now, you know, it also highlighted, I think, why we're building this new building out back across the street.

I was going to say if it was ever like anybody wondering why are they building this big new state House?

That was th that was the ad for it, right?

That's right.

You know I don't know if you were here.

My first session with the legislature was that 2009 session where we flooded and it was the 26 or 20 seventh day, and we needed to get the budgets across.

So we went to the old Capitol and finished up the legislative day there.

And you might remember, you know, we lost a handful of cars that got totaled out in the bottom of the deck, and even more cars in that middle parking lot.

And so one of the highlights for me, you know, when the dust settled Thursday morning, I got here pretty early t to see what the damage was, was how well our new deck, you know, made it that good.

You know, through you know, it was completely dry on the inside.

No cars damaged.

And so, you know, so that's a good sign of what we hav to come in the building as well.

I think, you know, just just the quality of the design and the construction and how much better it's going to hopefully, you know, make this process and avoid those kinds of situations.

Go well, good with those.

Okay.

We're doing doing good work.

I do remember that 200 that I was at across the street and the governor's office, everybody came over and the power was out.

That was i and there was so much moisture.

We're freaking out about the paintings and all the historic you know, nature of the Capitol.

That was a wild day.

But this made the even more wild, considering the, I don't know, gravity of the of the what they were dealing with in special session.

That's right.

Well, I think we're out of time.

Thank you for what you do.

I appreciate you coming on and explaining some of this.

Yeah.

Thanks for having me, Todd.

We'll be right back.

Birmingham's Ric Whitfield is the nation's oldest operating ballpark and served as the home field of the Birmingham Barons, Birmingham Ace and the Birmingham Black Barons for decades.

The Birmingham Barons inaugurated the new field on August 18th, 1910, by defeating the Montgomery Climbers.

The Black Barons played there between 1924 and 1950.

Rick Wood hoste Birmingham's minor league teams for several season through 1987, from 1967 to 1975.

The Barons were owned by Ensley native Charlie O. Finle and were part of the Kansas City and later Oakland A's organization.

More than 100 members of the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame have played at the field, including Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth Satchel Paige, and Willie Mays.

Today, the historic field is managed by Friends of Record and hos local amateur and college teams.

The Birmingha Barons still play a ceremonial throwback game at the ballpark every year.

The Rick Wood Classic, which celebrates Barons teams of the past and this historic field.

Welcome back to Capital Journal.

With so much going on lately with the congressional map, the Supreme Court, and various cases, the legalities can get a little confusing.

That's why I'm pleased t welcome as my next guest, Doctor John C40, a senior fellow at th American Enterprise Institute, where he focuses his scholarl work on Congress and elections.

John, thanks for making the time.

Well, as you know, here in Alabama, we are in the middle of this latest Supreme Court ruling drama, and there may be yet more rulings to come.

But I was hoping to take a step back and offer viewers a better legal understandin of how that Louisiana decision, which is what all this how all this started, actually came to be.

Well, there's obviously a long history.

I mean, we go as far back as the Civil War amendments to the Constitution.

And then, of course, a set of voting rights acts that bega with the first one in the 1960s.

But importantly, an update in the in 1982, and that law, has governed a lot of how we redistrict around the country.

But in particular, there is there have been a lot of questions which the court has not.

Supreme court is not always resolved fully on whether, race can be used, as a factor in creating districts.

And the the debate is somewhat whether we, consider, only intentional use of race to be something that's out of bound or whether we think that maybe the use of race for remedial purposes to create majority minority districts, might be part of the answer.

And in this decision in Louisiana, there was, Louisiana has had a district, that was created that was a majority minority district.

But, the litigation leading up to their their latest map led the legislature to believe that they might need to create a second, majority minority district that they were able to, based on the population and, and, how they might draw the map ultimately, in Calais, the specific decision on Louisiana was that, that Louisiana did not have to go forward and draw that second district as, as, some thought they might have to, but also that more generally, the court was interpreting what they believed had been, not completely resolved ove the years as to the question of is it proper in, in any way really to use race, as a remedial, tool, to create districts, majority minority districts, for the purpose of, of, of being being helpful for past wrong or giving, minority communities the right to elect the voters, the the candidates of their choice.

And the court ultimately said, while not absolutely, overruling the Voting Rights Act or of some of the earlier cases, really said, that you cannot use race, in order to draw these districts and that the intentional use of race, whether it is, to discriminate against someone to keep them from voting or in order to draw these districts, which were meant to be helpful and remedial.

But both of those are out of bounds.

And, essentially, I think this, other than the facts in the specific case in Louisiana, really does open the door to a number of states to consider districts that are, not based on race, not necessarily preserving even the earlier districts that were that were drawn, to create a majority minority district.

Right.

And we're starting to see that cascade of states going to redraw their maps in the wake of Calais.

Alabama is unique in that our legislature didn't redraw the map.

They asked the court to revert back to a map that essentially restores a Republican district.

And we'll get more into that in a minute.

But let me ask you this.

The ruling has been widely characterized as a gutting or a weakening of the Voting Rights Act, a law that has its roots right here in Alabama.

Do you agree with that characterization, or is it more complicated than that?

Well, I thin the more to the story is that, there has been some disagreement on exactly what it mean to, enforce the original Civil War amendments and then also to enforce, the various, the various versions of the Voting Rights Act.

I think one of the thing that really does come down to, that overall is that you have, this question of is it legitimate to use race as a factor?

Whether that is, to, you could say to prevent somebody from using race as a factor to discriminate against someone, to prevent them from voting, to hinder their voting, but also whether race is proper as a factor, to, create districts or to do things to remediate from the past.

The Voting Rights Act has several sections, and you know that that an earlier section, section five and it's and it's formula in section four had been, struck down by the court in an earlier time that that was a par that really did deal more with the historical discrimination and the evidence for it and the, evidence very strong evidence in the 1960s where, you could show, the registration rates and voting rates and all sorts of practices, led to some, some very very big disparities in the way, that African-Americans and white voters were, were voting and were registering, that was that allowe some very particular processes to go through the court a few years ago.

And Shelby said, that those those matters are would need to be updated.

You need to show current, evidence for those kind of remedial matters so that that section has been essentially dormant for a little while.

The section two that that many of the other cases, had been brought under.

There is this question of, again, what does it mean, to, to, have practices that might, hinder, the voting or, or intentionall discriminated against someone.

And the court essentially is saying and think there's, there's not much, not much room wiggle room here that, that, you cannot create a district, unless you show intent rather than showing that the effects of the, of the district are to lead to a certain result.

One of the ways in which this, came about is in 1982, the Congress came bac after an earlier court decision and said, you know, we actually aren't happy that the court is is relying too much on intent.

We want to show that a district that doesn't create the effects or doesn't allow for the election of certain candidates of that, that, majority minority voters would want our elected.

And they put in some language that was strong in that direction.

But in in Calgary the court, Supreme Court today also noted that there's a lot of, other language in that decision to, in that in that original in that 1982 law, that there was also language that you could say took the other side.

That said, we really don't want to say that, you should have proportional representatio representation in a state that, that, you need to create as many districts as the proportion of African-Americans in the state, that that is the goal.

And so the court in Calais wrestled with these, these different parts of this 1982, amendment or the 1982 version of the Voting Rights Act, and really did come down on the side that it is a it is about, intentional discriminate ation and not about the effects of this.

And what that means essentially is when, when, case where in many cases in some states and Alabama, often where, Democrats, African-Americans vote heavily Democratic, that creating a district that might, be against or being seeking to dilute the power of Democrats or a Partizan measure that Republicans may want to and, enact, that would be allowed because, it's not aimed at people by race, particularl that in another state, in other Democratic controlled states, when they want to draw lines, they draw lines to, to benefit their party.

That's a traditional thing that parties like to do, and that here we shouldn't separate out race from that.

So so that there i a kind of equality of treatment because, the, the voters, are of Alabama.

The legislature of Alabama would really be looking to, promote their interests, but not really intending race as the matter, but reall intending political advantage.

Ultimately I think the effect is it gives it gives Republican legislatures in states, especially in states, many southern states with with created majority minority districts, the opportunity to probably draw lines that are more favorable to them and not consider race quite in the same way that that previous interpretations of the of the Voting Rights Act and previous maps had had put forward.

You know, we find ourselves in this arms race, if you will, with both partie trying to bolster their numbers in Congress started in Texas, then Illinois, California.

You saw what happened in Virginia.

Now it's Florida, Tennessee.

But can we zoom out a little bit?

Let's zoom out and take maybe a longer term view.

How might redistricting look in 2030 or maybe even longer than that?

What's the future look like for redistricting post Kelly.

Well, I'm relatively pessimistic about states, in the sense that, if you believe that there, if you if you're not a fan of, of Partizan redistricting, I think we're going to see a lot more of that.

And I think this precedes the Kelly decision, as you mentioned, that you have, even in states where we weren't reall considering, the questions of, districts drawn, majority, minority districts drawn, there has been a back and forth between Republican and Democratic states.

It has existed even for a couple decades.

And if you go bac to the beginning of our country, you can actually see some, you know, very significant, wars between the two early parties in the first 50 years of our country where, this is something that is built into our system in many ways.

What Kelly, I think added to this is that there were in certain states, some districts that might have been protected from this and not allowed to be, changed, whereas in other states these things were going forward.

So it sort of broadened the field for this sort of thing.

Now, we had made some moves in certain individual states to having, commissions or somewhat less partizan ways of drawing districts.

But we've see with the recent back and forth that some of these commissions and rules are not necessarily permanent.

California has, you know, amended the their constitution and gotten rid of their commissions, at least for a while.

A Virginia tried to do the same and is held up on something of a procedural issue.

They may go forwar and do that in the next cycle.

I'm not sure what I see really stopping that sort of thing.

Theoretically, w could have federal law on this that would provide some, criteria or tamp down this.

But as you know, things, of a bipartisan nature getting through Congress, it's very har to get that sort of agreement.

So, so maybe the parties find some way they think that that, this has gotten too fa and they come to some agreement.

But I am a bit pessimistic.

I think we're going to see, this cycle, certainly next cycle.

Definitely.

And and you're probably right going into 2030 and, and beyond, many states, if it's controlled by Republicans having a map that is strongly Republican and a state is controlled by Democrats having the maps that are strongly, Democratic.

And, you know, that's true both for the congressional seats and then also the the state legislative battles that we're very likely to see in the coming years.

Yeah.

And then we get into your a I colleagues, Jonah Goldberg and Yuval events case for expanding the House of Representatives.

Right.

But that's an argument for another day.

John thank you so much for your time and helping us understand all this.

All right.

Thanks very much.

We'll be right back.

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Learn something new every da with Alabama Public Television.

Visit us at AP tv.org/education to learn more.

Located in the heart of Alabama's aerospace industry, the U.S.

Spac and Rocket Center in Huntsville is dedicated to the U.S.

space program.

The collection spanned the history of spaceflight from early 20th century rocketry pioneer Robert Goddard to present day.

The permanent collectio includes the Apollo 16 command module and one of the thre remaining Saturn five rockets.

Although the center is well known for its historical collections, it is perhaps better known as the home of the original Space Camp.

This world class educational program began in 1982 as an effort to encourage children to explore careers in mathematics, science, and technology.

Space camp provides children and adults alike with an opportunity to experience what it would be like to be an astronaut.

In historical monument to the U.S.

space program.

The U.S.

Space and Rocket Center continues to not only preserve artifacts and archives, but to inspire future exploration and explorers.

A quick note before we sign off this week.

At the end of that last interview, I mentioned the concept of expanding the U.S.

House of Representatives.

We didn't have time to get into it, but it is a serious concept and something that could help bring order to some of the chaos we've seen in recent years.

Consider this in the very first Congress, seated in 1790.

Each membe represented about 35,000 people.

Today, that number is more like 775,000 people.

That's because the number of House members was capped by law in 1929, and the nation has grown substantially since.

Check out this grap from our common Purpose, showing how the average district has grown in population over the years.

And so the chances that you know and interact with your representative, which is what the founders intended, has dramatically decreased over the years.

Expanding the number of representatives would allow for a Congress closer to the people, and it could also cut down on the need for parties.

Partizan gerrymandered districts.

Of course, I'm not naive.

This would be near impossible to pull off in this hyper partizan era we are in, but improving how Congress functions and how Americans are represente shouldn't be a Partizan issue.

Just my $0.02.

And that's our show for this week.

Thanks for watching.

We'll be back next week at the same time right here on Alabama Public Television for our Capital Journal team.

I'm Todd Stacey.

We'll see you next time.