From ou statehouse studio in Montgomery.

I'm Todd Stacey.

Welcome to a special episode of Capitol Journal.

As we are covering another special session of the Alabama legislature.

As we reported on Friday, Governor Kay Ivey has called state lawmakers back to Montgomery to address the state's congressional map and the state Senate map.

This stems from the US Supreme Court ruling last Wednesday that a majority black congressional district in Louisiana wa an unconstitutional gerrymander.

That ruling struck down Race-based mapmaking and opened the doo for more redistricting efforts across the country.

But here in Alabama, the situation is unique.

The state remains under a federal court order to not redraw congressional districts until 2030, the year of the next census.

So lawmaker are not actually in Montgomery to draw new districts, as other states are doing right now.

Instead, Alabama Republican are attempting to pass two bills that would set specia election dates should the courts allow the state to revert back to a previously enacted map that was subsequently struck down.

Here's what we're talking about.

On the left is the map originally passed by the legislature in 2023, the congressional districts.

It was eventually ruled unconstitutional by a federal court, and that ruling was upheld by the Supreme Court.

On the right is the current congressional map that was drawn by a special master appointed by the court after the state's original map was struck down.

The redraw altered the first and second districts in South Alabama to give the state one more majority minorit district Attorney General Steve Marshall and Secretary of State West Allen are asking the court for an emergency injunction to allow the originally passed map to go back into effect.

No ruling has come down from the court as of yet, and this is State Senate districts 25 and 26 here in the Montgomery area.

Similar to the congressiona map, a court mandated this map when the one passed by the legislature was ruled unconstitutional.

But in light of the Louisiana decision, the state is asking the court to allow the state to also revert back to this originally past map.

Per the governor's call, the House gaveled in at 4:00 today and allowed for the filing of just one bill.

House Bill one would call for that special election in Congressional Districts one, two, and seven.

Should the Supreme Court allow the state to revert back to its original 2023 map.

House Speaker Nathaniel Ledbetter said Republicans want to notch this victory and potentially ad one more Republican to Congress.

But Democrats are urging their colleagues to slow down and wait for the court.

If I understand correctly, if the state is successful in dissolving the injunction, we would revert to the 2023 congressional plan.

Yes, ma'am.

That's correct.

Yeah.

If amendment 14 is removed by the Supreme Court, then we will revert back to the 23 plan.

And the reason for that is because it's already been through hearings against the court.

It's already done all the due diligence.

Any other plan that you drew would have to go through the process all over, which means it could be anywhere from 12 to 24 months.

If we ever got to resolve o that, then you might not then.

And I would suspect that that court probably would file injunction against it.

On top of the lawsuits that would be filed.

In your statement, you said that maybe give Republicans a fighting chance to win all seven seats.

Does the 2023 plan do that?

It changes schools district a little.

Yeah it does, if my memory serves me right.

Course, we'll know for sure after the caucus meeting.

I believe that that district was a 5050 split at the end, and that's been a few years ago.

And population has decline in that congressional district.

So, yeah, I think I think with the right candidate and the funding, it's certainly possible.

I came here and I got on the roll toda from a place called Birmingham, a place called Birmingha that was once known as bombing Hale a place where four little girls were killed in the 1963 bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church a place where Martin Luther King would assemble men and women black and white, for the purpose of getting us to the poin that we had the right to vote.

So then we come here to Montgomery, and I thought about the steps of John Lewis, and I thought about the steps of Rosa Parks just a stone's throw away, where she refused to give up her seat on a bus here in Montgomery.

And then I thought about Selma just a few miles up the road in Selma and the 1965 crossing of the Edmund Pettus Bridge, all for the purpos of giving us the right to vote.

So for me, it is a moment in time.

It's a moment in time when my blackness doesn't matter.

And the right to have representation from people who look like me or understand where I come from, will no longer exist here in the state of Alabama.

And that's where we are.

That's what this session is about.

Similarly, in the Senate, just one bill is being considered.

It would call for a special electio in Senate Districts 25 and 26.

Should the cour allow a previous map to be used.

The bill is sponsore by State Senator Chris Elliott, who says the effort is about putting a plan in place anticipating the court's ruling.

But Democratic Senate Minority Leader Bobby Singleton argues that lawmakers are moving ahea despite existing court rulings questioning why the legislature is taking up the issue.

Now.

I would have hope to have avoided that confusion by the courts leaving the districts like they were when they were passe by the duly elected legislature, but that's not where we find our citizens.

And so in.

In recognition of the recent decision made by the Supreme Court we're simply reacting to that.

And again, providing the the option that should the Atlantic circuit do something different, then we and the voters have the opportunity to vote in the districts that their elected representatives passed.

This is a very measured, learned and well studied approach.

We've put the time in, ask the tough questions.

We've got a number of lawyers and caucus, you know, lots of political science degrees.

Everybody who's looked through this and and I think we are we are taking a measured approach to react t what the Supreme Court has done, especially in the in the Senate case.

And, and we'll we'll take a look at it in the congressional races as well.

Firs of all, we should not be here.

The court has already ruled on what they're going to do in this particular case is now a state of Alabama just trying to get ahead just because they've been told by the presiden of the United States to go out and do some redistricting.

Alabama does not need to do that.

They are purely a state already.

And supermajority.

It is shameful that we're here.

We're spending taxpayer mone just coming here to do nothing.

Because, you know, we saw this morning that the court did not move on these cases when they sent out their listing this morning.

And so they did not vacate, did not in remand or anything on this particular case, either the Milliken case in or or or the Scott case that came down.

So I just don't I'm still trying to figure out why we're here.

District two is not a majority.

Blac district is not based on race.

It is what the court did.

And what these legislatures continue to do is stick the middl finger to the courts once again, over and over again, telling the courts, we don't care what it is that you rule.

We're going to do what we want to do.

Waiting on lawmakers to arrive at the state House today, where hundreds of protesters gathered on the front steps, rallying in opposition to this special session.

The Southern Poverty Law Center and the ACLU of Alabama sponsored the demonstration that was impossibl to miss in downtown Montgomery.

They argued that what the governor and the legislature ar trying to do is unconstitutional and just wrong.

Now, last week, the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Louisiana versus Calais.

Oh, and whil some may try to complicate it, we know what it is.

It is a strategic attempt to erase the Voting Rights Act, which we know is our strongest protection against disenfranchisemen protections that were not given rights, protections that wil vote for right here in Alabama.

So as I reflect on that bloody Sunday March, today, I am deeply saddened to stand here today.

Yeah.

For us to be in this state and which we're in, in not only fighting to keep our right to vote, but also fighting to continue to get people to continue to vote.

Right.

You know, much blood, sweat and tears were shed in an effort for u to gain the right to vote again.

And today?

Yes, today in 2026.

There are still people who are still not exercising that right to vote.

Come on.

But we are fighting.

We are still fighting today.

Even in an effort to keep our right to vote.

We'll take a quick break and be back with tonight's guests.

You can watch past episodes of Capital Journal online any time at Alabama Public Television's website.

aptv.. org.

Click on the online video tab on the main page.

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Welcome back to Capital Journal.

Do you want to be next to state Senator Chris Elliott from Baldwin County?

Senator thanks for coming on the show.

Thanks for having me.

Appreciate your time.

We're here in this special session that no, nobody really expected.

Obviously, the result of the Supreme Court ruling.

Governor Ivey calling the special sessio to basically set up a scenario, a plan for if the Supreme Court also comes through with, essentially allowing the 2023 maps or the 2021 maps.

You filed legislation on this on the state Senate map.

Talk about what what it does and why.

Why are we here?

Well, conceptually, there's the piece.

The two pieces of legislation are the same, but it basically is preserving an option should either court in the 11th Circuit, the Supreme Court make a decision, based in large part about what was handed down in the collide decision here recently.

If if they make a decision, then we'll have the option in Alabama to use the maps that Alabama's legislature passed.

And so we revert bac to those 20, 23 maps that were, you know, went through the public notice process and got public input and were debated and passed.

And so, the goal here and while we are here is to provide the options that should the courts act, we can very quickly go back to, to our maps that we passed here in Alabama.

So the obvious question is, you know the election is two weeks away and some something the ballots are printed, some absentee votes have gone on.

How will how will all that shake up?

Because, not every district is impacted.

Obviously.

It's just two Senate districts and I gues three congressional districts.

So how would it shake out?

Like would there be special elections?

What happens?

So that's a great question.

And and the short answer is, and we'll touch on the absentee for to begin with.

If you voted absentee, the votes that you cast, for, other offices will count.

Now, should, the Supreme Court or the circuit maker make a ruling that allows us to go back to using the maps that we passed in Alabama in 2023?

Then there will be a special election, and you will you will have more, new qualification right by, in the party primary.

And then you will have a new special election that you will need to vote in as well.

And so if you've already voted absentee, then those votes count except for, this.

And then you would go back and vote again in those old districts that are now new districts.

But honestly, it does kind of sound like a great setup for a lawsuit.

I mean, y'all have y'all anticipate that would have y'all's counsel told you about the possibility of, you know, like, say, voted absentee and then suddenly that vote doesn't count and then I become a plaintiff, right.

So that's wh we're being very careful.

Right.

And so there's a lot of conversation about, you know, doing new maps or something of that nature.

And so what we're doing is the most sound way, to go back to maps that Alabama representatives designed.

And as the Supreme Cour allows now specifically, right, is is to take partizanship into account.

We are going back to the way that gets another Republican member of Congress, like we had it before, because that's that's how we set it up.

And so that's the goal.

That's what we are trying to do.

And I think it's an important thing this time, at this time in our country, this this juncture, with the margins being so tight in Congres to do everything we can to help Speaker Johnso out and help the president out.

Yes.

From a Partizan standpoint, what happens if the courts do not act?

What happens if the Supreme Court doesn' lift that order, doesn't allow reversion back to those maps?

Same thing with the 11th Circuit if the courts don't act.

Is it just the status quo?

The short answer is yes.

We are under a court order right now to not redraw maps.

Which is why, Genera Marshall has specifically asked for the Supreme Court to act on this issue and for us to revert back to the 2023 maps that we've already we've already passed.

It's important to know that's also the most expeditious way to get back to the maps that we've already drawn.

And as you well know in pointed out, time is a factor here, right?

And so this is the quickest way to get back to adding another Republican back into the, back into the delegation.

Now we getting a way ahead of ourselves.

But no matter what happens this week, no matter what happens with the court, the appetite to, like you said, bolster tha Republican majority in Congress is always going to be there.

Do you see, in the future, another mid-decade, redraw attempt?

I mean, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but would you do you think that we will see even greater attempts, whether or not this week works out for y'all to to make Alabama a completely, red state in terms of congressional districts?

Yeah, I could see that certainly in the regular redistricting in 2030.

Unless the court's decision is something, you know, different than what they've issued in Calais, if they go further in the Alabama case, then you could see that earlier.

But I think that really depends on what the court does, what the opinion says and what the precedent is.

And so we'll have to wait and see really what they do if they do anything to make that decision.

But but no, I think that is as happens every, you know, ten years you're going to see redistricting that tries to get as many Republicans in Alabama or Democrats in California in Congress as possible.

Now, you've heard all the protesters out here today, you've hear your colleagues and everything.

They're really concerned about diluting minority representation by having fewer black people represent Alabamians in Congress.

How do you respon to those kind of concerns about maybe not the intent, but the the effect of a session like this?

Well, look, what we're trying to do again is go back to the maps that this legislature passed, which is our constitutional duty, right?

The the maps that were, you know, discussed, debated the public hearings that took place all around the state on this and that.

We arrived on and passed the governor signed into law.

I think the courts improperly stepped in.

And you saw that certainly in the KLA decision, when the Supreme Court told the courts that they, you know, had stepped in.

And so I think that's where the fault lies.

Now it's time to get back to our maps that we drew and negotiated the past.

Well, we will be following very closely.

This is a special episode.

We're not going to be on the air every day this week.

We'll be back on Friday to wrap it all up.

The senator.

Thank you.

And we'll be following.

Thanks for having me.

We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to Capitol Journal.

Joining me next is state senator Roger Smitherman from Birmingham.

Smitherma thanks for coming on the show.

Thank you for having me.

Good to be here.

I'm glad I caught you in the hall because we want to have conversations about what's going on here.

We did not expect to be back here in the statehouse.

I agree.

Talk through your caucuses objections to what is going on here in terms of the ad, you know, meeting a special session to adopt this plan.

Should the court act?

Well, objection number one is, is the fact that we are, on the court already as it relates to, redistricting and that all the, states that, it's not to be considered again at the 2030.

And so, naturally, that's that's what we object, because those are all the, the court we're on.

And, as long as we on the orders of the court, then that's what you have to do.

And, so we object to that.

That's number one.

Number two, we objec to the fact of them criticizing.

I mean, you know, the districts in that these districts were put together, they wer this district was put together where the, I think it's called the standing master administratio method that the courts picked.

This is the person that's totally neutral to the fact.

And, someone who the court speak.

It wasn't a district of ours, and it wasn't their district either.

This was a district.

We've put together.

Told you, the, you know, the guidelines of the court and, and so that's, that's that's another thing.

And then the third thing is the fact that, the district was put together as an opportunity district.

The district didn't even and t my knowledge, and I think it it it didn't even have a majority of African-American voters in it.

You know, I think it was something like 40 something percent, for somebody.

So, you know, it's it's those for those reasons alone.

I mean, the district is solid, you know, to all the concerns that anybody would have got the court drew them, you know, and, and adopted those.

So we object to that.

That's that's one of the main things we have to.

And the main thing that you rejected as well is that, you know, you're disenfranchizing voters.

We objected that you'r not giving them an opportunity to, to vote and, you know, pick a person who, they would lik to have an opportunity to select you just taking that completely away from them.

If you going to, ignor what the courts have told us or.

And, Oh, the plaintiffs in this case, well, well, so we w I don't know if we call the play the defenders, but the, ma the bench involved by the state, it was determined to be discriminatory, you know, and and so for all those reasons, we, you know, we objected, an they even happened to be here.

I hear you I have to ask you though, doesn't it make sense?

Because we're not meeting.

The legislature's not meeting to redraw lines.

They're they're her to pass these special elections in case the court rules, as they kind of are betting on and want in terms of getting back the old map.

So does it make sense at all to go ahead and be prepared for that?

Like the Republicans saying, okay, we don't know if it's going to happen, but if it does happen, we're passing this.

Looking forward to it doesn't make some sense that they would do that.

Well, if, if if the goal is to disenfranchize voters then that's what you look at it.

I mean, the maps that they they want to look at and use, which was declared, wasn't accepted by the court.

They only provide for one, opportunity for one district, or have an opportunity late o the one African-American person to Congress.

You were in a state that has 30% African-American population.

And no matter how you cut it, 30% is a third.

You know, a third of of, seven is is 2.5 or 2.4 and six or 7 or 8.

So, you know, you have these number a citizen in the state.

And as a result of that they should have an opportunity to elect more than one perso to represent them in Congress.

Well, he's been around for many rounds of redistricting.

We were trying to figure out earlier there's just how many, but but plenty.

If you take it they're not jus every ten years, but sometimes special sessions in the middle.

That's right.

Was that the thing in the 80s when the Voting Rights Act was now one hit in Oakland and then Oppo.

So we you know, there's been a lot you've seen a lot, what happens next?

Let's just say that this goes as Republicans are planning that the court rules and all that, and that their, their, their plan is set up.

One thing I've noticed from redistricting over the years is that it the effect cascade into the next session.

What would happen, what would you all's caucus?

I don't know, posture be should this this plan be enacte looking toward the next session?

Well, one of the things that, I think that that would have to happen is that you would have to bring back the protections that, the section two that I know, section two is pretty much gone with the rulings, diminished tremendously.

But that was the reason for section two.

And then when we had poll taxes, you had to count how many marbles was in the jellybeans within a jar.

You had to recite certain things if you wanted that opportunity to vote.

All those obstacles that were put in place, or will gradually be coming back, you know, because you don't have any protections prior to the protections.

They were there.

The only reason that they left.

Well, one of the reasons I'm sure they left because you had oversight by the federal government, preclearance, the cleaners and all of that.

And, once that's gone to then, you know, oh, they say when it gets away, they might play with us.

That's the same principle, you know, you you going to have that?

And, and you said, well what's the danger of the danger is, is what I called it.

They're coming to reconstruction.

If you remember reconstruction prior to reconstruction, we had representation in Congress back.

We had four places in the Congress tha African-Americans represented.

And then once reconstruction came in, that' this is part of reconstruction, the poll tax and all those things.

The end up with no representation.

We didn't even have any representatio down here after reconstruction.

And so from from that point on where you had the, Civil Rights Act and, protection for voters and, and, then from that point to now, you have the representation you see now.

So, you know, if if you start moving back in that direction, then it's is a pathway to the set and coming to reconstruction.

Well, well, we are out of time.

So we'll leave it there.

We'll catch up with you later in the week though.

But I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your thoughts.

Well thank you for having me on here.

And it's good to be, here, but I don't do this here.

We we back for the special session but that's part of the process as part of a part of one one more go around for the state House.

There's one more time.

Thanks again.

Thank you very much.

Also.

We'll be right back.

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And that's our show for tonight.

The first day of this special session.

We won't be on the air every night this week, but we will return to wrap it all up on Friday for our Capital Journal team.

I'm Todd Stacey.

We'll see you next time.