and good evening to you.

>> Thank you so much for watching LIFE Ahead on PBS Fort Wayne.

I'm Mark Evans, your host.

Of course this show is a weekly program, some very vital information for adults of all ages and tonight you'll understand why we're going to talk about fraud big, big issue these days and the title of our program the topic I should say is the AARP Fraud Watch Network and a couple of fine people are with us and I'll introduce them in just a moment.

But as always, we do love your phone calls and your text so the numbers on your screen at (969) 27 to zero with area code of two six zero that's the phone line to call to talk to us live or if you'd like to text us your question that's the other number on the screen (969) 27 three zero.

And when you text us, give us at least your first name and what town your texting from so we can do a nice shout out to you and we'd appreciate any call or text tonight and I have a feeling we're going to be busy when our special guest Emily Gorman who is the director of Community engagement for AARP Indiana and then Jeff Hale is Fort Wayne volunteer team leader for AARP Indiana as well.

So it's great to have you both and I think you've both been on your show before, haven't we have.

>> Yep.

All right.

Well great.

So you kind of know how this goes and I'm a griller.

I'm going I'm going to make you sweat.

>> We're seasoned professionals at this point.

I'm just kidding about that.

And again, thank you so much for joining us tonight.

>> So we want to go ahead and get things started for first of all, I have been a member of AARP for almost 20 years and I think it's a wonderful organization.

But for those who don't know exactly what AARP is, can you explain?

>> Yeah, I hope that people will take from today they'll be surprised by all of the things that we do.

So I think many people when they think of AARP, they think of the membership.

You get great discounts.

We support lots of great organizations that are going to help you out but we also are primarily an advocacy organization.

So we like to say that where your wise friend and your fierce defender so we are on Capitol Hill fighting for issues that are important to people 50 and over.

We're here in the state house in Indiana working with legislators for policies that are going to help older adults and then on the local level we're also making sure that we're working with local leaders to make communities as friendly and as livable as possible.

And so we we do an awful lot and I hope that today when we talk about fraud, people will learn that AARP is more than just your membership and you've been around for a long, long time.

Yeah, yeah.

So you perfected the way you do things and the topics that you attack that you that you want to take care of and help people so but fraud prevention may not be like the first thing I think people think about when they think of AARP.

So today we're going to talk about the fraud watch network that you have.

So what is the AARP Fraud Watch Network and who is it for ?

>> Yeah, so this is for anyone you do not have to be a member to utilize a service.

So we have a nationwide fraud watch network where it's basically a wealth of resources for people to educate you on how to notice and spot a scam.

We also have a hotline that's open Monday to Friday.

I think the phone number is on the screens on Monday to Friday, 8:00 a.m.

to 8:00 p.m.

where if you think you've been a victim of a scam or if you just need support and help and you want to report a scam, you can call that number and we will have people help you every step of the way.

We also have a the fraud watch network has a scam trap tracking map where you can zoom in and that's showing on the screen here too.

You can zoom in to your local area and it will highlight specific scams that are happening close to you.

So whether it's a toll road scam that you get those text messages or you know you have a package delivered or whatever that's going to show on that map so that you can keep an eye out and know what to look out for .

>> That's great.

Yeah, that is true.

Super local, super specific and we'll bring up those graphics a little later on the program in case you didn't get all that information, Jeff, it's amazing how many people I'm sure feel overwhelmed by the recurrent scams that are going on today.

So why is fraud such a big issue right now?

>> Well, one is it's new opportunities for technology and so forth and so it's scammers are taking advantage of that opportunity in that technology.

In twenty twenty five the FBI reported that they had eighty one million eighty one million dollars for 16 older Hoosiers who felt the impact of fraud and that's that's just what was reported.

So we don't know how much was not reported in.

The second part is that is twice as much as was reported in twenty twenty four.

So it's a growing industry if you will to to know that the fraud the fraudsters are professionals and what they do and they're taking advantage of those of us who really don't understand the business.

So the best the best defense is to be aware and so the scams may look new because they take on a new method if you will.

But in reality the professional scammers are simply reusing the old process with new technology.

And so again, the good news is is is if we understand how it works and what to look for then we potentially can stop before we fall victim to to fraud.

It's also a crime that's the that's the other part to know is not just a bad decision.

Fraud is actually a crime in the end victims are never to blame even if they they unfortunately and inadvertently make a bad decision that comes back to to haunt them.

>> Wow.

Well, Emily , the Fraud Watch Network identifies common elements of course or promise or shouldn't say promise but present in almost every scam.

>> Can you explain some of those are yeah.

>> So AARP identifies that there are three main red flags to look out for .

The first one is going to be a sense of urgency.

So something really important a scammer is going to call you and say this needs to happen right now right away.

That's something that's a red flag that's to look at to keep an eye out for the second one is a sense of like excitement or panic or an emotion attached to it.

>> So that's a big red flag to look out for and then the last one is an unexpected contact.

So if you're getting a phone call from something you weren't expecting or somebody is texting you and you weren't expecting to hear from your bank or Social Security or whatever that might be just that's that's a red flag to look out for and keep your eyes open for .

So those three things.

>> Yeah.

So what happens, Jeff?

What is AARP recommend people to do when they notice these red flags which they sure do right then?

>> Well, again, the the the method is to get you excited about the situation and so the first thing to do is to take what AARP calls an active pause because you can't think with emotion.

And so what we want people to do is to take a breath, slow down and in and reinsert some logic and some thinking and some reasoning into the situation versus simply reacting to their emotion.

So the first question is does this make sense if somebody calls and says, you know, we need fifty thousand dollars immediately, does that make sense?

Secondly is is it an organization that typically contacts people out of the blue so you know, maybe it's the IRS scam and so forth but they don't typically call you out of the blue.

There's a lot of times some kind of notice through the mail or something like that.

And secondly, how can you go there and verify the situation independently?

So if they give you a phone number it's probably the worst number to call instead go to you know, look for other phone numbers or other ways to contact the organization that's making that they claim to be representing so that you can verify that it's actually happening.

So the pause gives gives logic time to to catch up with emotion and that's again the first step to combating a scam.

>> And of course the scammers want you to immediately do something.

>> And so is there a chance that if you don't immediately do something and I don't know what how long the pause should be but are they going to end up trying to call you back and maybe lighting the fire again?

Is that possible?

Is very possible and that's why you want to find legitimate ways to contact the organization.

So if if you're a bank if they claim your bank is suddenly trying to close your accounts, you need to go to the bank and contact your bank.

But again, don't use the number they provide go and find or go on site if it's if it's a brick and mortar bank so that you can verify that it's actually an issue.

>> And should people be taking notes when they get these calls and what they're saying and possibly where this where the call is coming from is that a good idea?

>> Absolutely.

The more information that you can provide to to your financial institutions and so forth, the better they can inform you what's really going on.

So you know, so when you if you're going to stay on the line which we recommend not doing but if you're going to stay on the line then take careful notes so you know what you're what you're saying and what you're being asked to do and then you can report it.

>> Right.

OK, and Emily , we're talking just now about phone calls but what are the most typical or common way scammers contact people today?

>> Yeah, I think unfortunately most of us and most of your viewers watching have probably been reached out to by some form of a scam before.

Oh, absolutely.

Exactly.

You're getting text messages.

You get email.

There are still robo calls and phone calls that people are getting as you'll see with the rise of A.I.

you hear I all over the place.

But social media has fabricated ads from businesses or buy this now or there's a sale here that you're seeing is people and you don't you have no way of knowing if it's real or not because it looks so legitimate and then the other one is social media messages.

So you'll have somebody reach out to you on Facebook or Instagram or whatever you use claiming to be somebody you know and you have no way of knowing that they're not right.

So there's lots of different ways.

>> The most common I would say is probably text message and phone calls still though, OK, we have a call coming in.

It looks oh it's actually a text and it's coming from James of Fort Wayne and he's asking technology help or do you have any idea what he might be meaning by that?

Does it is that the full question up there on the screen that oh, I do apologize.

I didn't sorry I went on that screen are you OK?

Are you hopeful that scams and fraud will be reduced as technology gets better or do you see the problem getting worse before it gets better?

>> Thank you, James.

I think as I'll let you chime in here, I think as Jeff alluded to before, I think the scammers are getting better with technology.

Unfortunately I think that there are more and more ways for them to outsmart us or at least attempt to do so.

I do I do foresee this problem getting worse.

The solution though is to be able to spot a scam and be able to notice what is a red flag and that's what AARP is hoping to to do.

>> And if you wanted to add anything yeah, I think the more that you know, going into the situation, you know, in advance of being being contacted by a scammer, the better the more defenses of you have that you have established.

So as much as it's inconvenient to have the multi authentication process before you get onto your own account, it also protects you from somebody else getting on your account and taking over and doing different things with, you know, stealing your money or whatever happens to be.

So it's it's it's truly an awareness and vigilant situation that we need to take on as consumers.

>> And you mentioned earlier, Jeff, that you've got to take that pause before you react.

But what's your best advice when someone receives a message that looks really or feels really urgent?

>> Well, it's not just urgent and also legitimate in many cases.

So the first thing that we we recommend is if they say click on this link, don't click on the link.

If they say reply immediately, don't reply immediately again, as I mentioned earlier, if they're on the phone to say I'm not going to talk to you and hang up and so and then find what are the correct contacts that you need to make and because not only are you finding that out to say hey, somebody is telling me that my my bank accounts compromised but you're also beginning the reporting process which eventually will go to law enforcement and hopefully they can do something as well.

But you really want to make sure that you trust who you're talking to and so you know, you also if you're unsure then check with somebody else a trusted friend or a family member to say I've been contacted.

What do you think?

And sometimes it's like we need to do some some more research before we jump.

>> It can continue down this road.

OK, great advice Emily .

>> What types of scams are people most frequently reporting right now?

Yeah, I looked this up before we came on our IRP Fraud Watch network tracks what the top scams are that we're seeing so no one is government imposter scams.

So the IRS, Social Security, things like that.

>> Number two is our business imposter scam.

So somebody's pretending to be your bank or a local business or something that seems legit but it's not we're seeing a lot of those investment scams with promises of a guaranteed return if you invest in this one hundred percent chance you're going to get your money back and make more free trials that often than in the in the small print turns into a recurring monthly payment.

So you know, when you sign up for something on your TV and they're not telling you that you're actually going to be paying more every month.

And the last one is scams that are targeting people who are in an emotional moment in their life .

So maybe they've just had a death in the family or there's a funeral or something scammers are taking advantage of that and those are the most common that we're seeing right now unfortunately.

>> All right.

And speaking the most common what Jeff was the Fraud Watch Network highlighting certain payment methods that the criminals do prefer.

>> Why does that matter?

Scammers are really trying to get us to pay them with ways that are irreversible.

So things like gift cards and so forth and we all love to receive those of the holidays but often those are scammers who are taking advantage of somebody's goodwill in somebody you love for a family member and so forth.

So you know, so big there's ways to steal the money right off the card without anybody knowing it until you try to try to use the card.

We'll talk about cryptocurrency and a little bit but at some point sometimes scammers will ask consumers to convert cash into crypto and which is we're not against crypto.

We think it's a you know, a good way to go but we're against the scamming part of it, the fraudulent part of it.

And so once that's done, once it's converted and we think our money is safe, it's just went from US dollars to crypto dollars actually it's gone and there's no way to recover.

There's no path, no trail.

It's untraceable to figure out what to do.

You know, wire transfers again the same thing especially if they go overseas is like how do you ever trace that and how do you ever go collect?

I mean there's no no one to find.

You know, if you wish to go knock on someone's door, where's the door?

You know, peer to peer payments .

We you know, in my case I have my daughter pay me through a peer to peer payment but I know who that's I know where the money's coming from and she knows where it's going because you know, we're family.

We know each other but just somebody says can you, you know, send me some money Venmo or whatever is like I don't know who you are.

I'm not going to do that.

So you know, cash is probably the worst way when somebody says can you give me a thousand dollars in cash I can only accept cash.

Sorry I won't do business with you.

We've even heard about gold bars being, you know, requestor and given as as payment.

I don't know if people actually have the the debt that is being referenced in the scam.

I just know these are bad ways to pay.

So you know what we like to say is that no legitimate company or government agency is going to demand payment through through gift cards or through you know, presently through crypto, presently through peer to peer payments.

That's simply not going to happen if you over your taxes to the IRS.

They're going to say well send us a bunch of gift cards from X, Y, Z retailer.

>> All right.

And let's go ahead and Segway A cryptocurrency if you don't mind that still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing and I even do research on I'm still hasn't clicked but I understand that AARP and Diana played a big role in some of the recent protections for the Hoosiers when it comes to cryptocurrency a.T.M.

>> Yeah, which may sound like what even as a cryptocurrency ATM?

I know and I'm not sure I also fully wrap my head around crypto at this point either.

However, this is really exciting and I wanted to make sure that the audience hears about this IRP Indiana.

So as Jeff played a big role and actually we discovered our fraud watch network has discovered that a big way that scammers are getting to older adults is through these crypto currency ATMs and so they look just like a normal ATM.

You'll see them in a gas station or a liquor store and you're Wal-Mart.

They're usually right next to the normal ATM and what the scammers are doing is they're calling people up or texting or whatever and having people transfer their physical dollars, their cash into cryptocurrency by inserting their dollars into these crypto ATMs.

And we discovered that largely these ATMs, their only real use is by scammers.

There isn't really people who are trading in crypto are doing it through legitimate apps on the Internet and things like that not through these ATMs.

So we had a detective in Evansville who reached out to us who'd been working on this for years and we actually brought forth legislation on a local level to have these regulated and make sure that people saw a sign on them that said this be careful.

Be aware if you're about to put your money in here, know that you can't get it back once it goes into the machine it's just taking your money.

>> Exactly.

And that's it's untraceable.

So that was the big thing why it's so smart for scammers is that there isn't a way to kind of find out where it went.

But we then were able once that passed in Evansville we brought it up to the state level and it went through this most recent legislative session a bill that we were supporting and basically to cut a long story short, we were able to ban crypto ATMs for the entire state of Indiana so they actually no longer exist and so just another way that we're working to make sure that our older adults but also everyone is protected from these really clever scammers and I wanted to make sure that we shared that.

>> Oh no, I'm so glad you did in the support of Pride, Indiana was the first state in the country to to successfully ban ATMs in other other states are now using our legislation as their model for trying to do similar legislation in their states.

Excellent work so so we're pretty proud of that and again ,if you've never seen one then OK, fine but but why it's such a big issue is again in twenty twenty five the FBI reported just in crypto ATMs that three hundred thirty three million dollars nationwide was collected by scammers.

>> Yep.

My goodness.

Well what are some simple steps Jeff, that people can take to protect themselves?

>> Yeah, great question.

So as I mentioned first of all slow down.

Secondly ask somebody does this sound legit?

You know, if you're unsure then ask somebody does this does this really sound right to you and kind of do some points of comparison if you're online, make sure that you have strong and unique passwords and change those with some frequency as well.

I mentioned earlier the multi factor authentication I get it's inconvenient but security is very seldom convenient.

It's it's there to protect us, monitor your credit and consider if you're not borrowing money actively at any given time that you freeze your credit.

I've done that recently as well just and so I have to unfreeze it before I can borrow money now.

So again keep your devices updated especially your security software and your your your antivirus software.

>> You know if you have a bunch of documentation sitting around, you know we cleaned up my parents house.

I think we had tax returns back to nineteen sixty because my mother never through anything away.

Right so we could have used the A.P.

shredding events that we've been hosting.

I like that.

So if you don't have a shredder watch for different shredding events around town and so forth .

Again we're one of several organizations that host those but but if you simply put your documents into your trash, there are people who will go through your trash and find your Social Security numbers and your bank account numbers and so forth.

>> So you really want to shred but also not keep that in your home and then make sure that you know what personal information is online in this shared online so you can control that and so that you know, people were looking to do bad things to you can't get access to it.

>> All right.

We only have about two and a half minutes left but I want to give a couple a couple of points.

But this show does fine.

Yeah, but we kind of touched on this earlier but I want emphasize this as we get toward the end of the show if someone realizes they have been scammed, what should they do first?

>> Very quickly I would say act as quickly as you can once you notice that you've been a victim of a scan scam depending on what it is, call your credit card company.

Like Jeff said, if it's a gift card, call the number on the back of the gift card.

Ultimately what I'd say is call the Fraud Watch Network.

The hotline is showing on the screen you should be able to phone that number and somebody will be able to help you go through the steps we have the Federal Trade Commission you can report scams to Better Business Bureau, places like that where you can make sure your reporting so that it doesn't happen to anyone else and hopefully they can help get your money back.

>> OK, and Jeff, I have a couple questions for you.

The first one is many victims feel embarrassed.

I'm sure.

>> So what should you say to them?

Well, to remember that you're the victim of crime and so there's nothing to be embarrassed about.

You didn't start this.

You were simply the victim and so report the report the situation.

Remember that you're dealing with professionals and you're probably not a professional fraud combatants and so forth.

Make sure you report the information and you know and just bite the bullet and tell and tell people what happened who need to know and share the information.

>> Then the word will get around.

They learn from it.

We only have about a minute left.

I definitely want to answer this where can viewers go to learn more to get help?

>> Yeah, they just had it on the screen but you can head to our website IRP Doga I kn that's for our local web page.

We have social media, we have YouTube, we have YouTube shows that you'll see and we're also on Twitter or ex all right and I didn't mean to cut you off.

>> I want to definitely get this in because we've got a special event coming up in ten caps on June 7th on a Sunday.

>> Yeah.

So we are once again sponsoring our hit a flight out of the park well game and so so we invite people to come to come to the ball game on us.

You're in addition to getting into the game you get a hotdog, a soda and a bag of chips and so forth and if you're one of our guests and if you get in the first hundred sixty people receive one of these ball caps also that's not with a very large A for AARP and a baseball and so as kind of to help promote it I want to give you the first one oh I am a hat person I love wearing hats will probably wear this a a number one.

All right.

Thank you so much to the both of you for thank you for having to have you back again.

>> Thank you.

All right.

And we hope to have you back again as viewers on Life had and of course you can see this and other episodes on YouTube and our website at PBS for it.

Wait until next time.

We hope you have an excellent and fraud free life hand.

Thank you so much for watching