>> FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

THIS LABOR DAY SHORTENED WEEK HAS BEEN A BUSY ONE IN ALABAMA POLITICS, AND WE'LL START WITH THE RULING THAT CAME DOWN FROM A FEDERAL COURT REJECTING THE NEW CONGRESSIONAL MAP PASSED BY THE LEGISLATURE IN JULY.

THE THREE JUDGE PANEL THAT HAS BEEN REVIEWING ALABAMA'S REDISTRICTING PROCESS ISSUED A LENGTHY AND STERN REBUKE, SAYING THAT THE LEGISLATURE FLOUTED A PREVIOUS ORDER TO DRAW TWO CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS WITH A BLACK VOTING MAJORITY OR SOMETHING CLOSE TO IT.

THE JUDGES WROTE, "THE LAW REQUIRES THE CREATION OF AN ADDITIONAL DISTRICT THAT AFFORDS BLACK ALABAMIANS, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, A FAIR AND REASONABLE OPPORTUNITY TO ELECT CANDIDATES OF THEIR CHOICE.

THE 2023 PLAN PLAINLY FAILS TO DO SO."

THEY ALSO SAID THE COURT WAS UNAWARE OF ANY OTHER CASE IN WHICH A STATE LEGISLATURE -- FACED WITH A FEDERAL COURT ORDER TO CREATE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY DISTRICT -- RESPONDED WITH A PLAN THAT DOES NOT CREATE THAT DISTRICT.

ATTORNEY GENERAL STEVE MARSHALL EXPRESSED DISAPPOINTMENT WITH THE RULING AND VOWED TO APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT, SAYING, "WE STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE LEGISLATURE'S MAP COMPLIES WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT AND THE RECENT DECISION FROM THE SUPREME COURT."

SO WHAT'S NEXT.

WHILE WE AWAIT TO HEAR WHAT ACTION THE SUPREME COURT DECIDES TO TAKE OR NOT TAKE, A COURT-APPOINTED SPECIAL MASTER AND CARTOGRAPHER WILL BEGIN DRAWING A NEW CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT MAP FOR ALABAMA.

THE COURT ASKED FOR THREE MAPS TO BE SUBMITTED FROM WHICH THEY WILL SELECT THE BEST ONE.

THAT SPECIAL MASTER IS RICHARD ALLEN AND THE CARTOGRAPHER IS DAVID ELY.

WHILE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS DON'T HAVE A VOTE IN HOW THE DISTRICTS ARE DRAWN, YOU CAN BET THEY ARE WATCHING THE PROCESS CLOSELY.

CONGRESSMAN MIKE ROGERS WAS IN MONTGOMERY THIS WEEK AND SPOKE A LARGE GATHERING PUT ON BY THE MONTGOMERY CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

BEFORE THE SPEECH HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE REDISTRICTING ISSUE AND SAID HE WISHED THAT THE LEGISLATURE WOULD HAVE PASSED THE PRINGLE PLAN THAT WAS A LOT CLOSER TO WHAT THE COURT ORDERED.

>> I'M SURE THE STATE'S GOING TO ASK FOR THE SUPREME COURT TO GRANT THEM CERTIORARI TO MAKE THEIR ARGUMENT.

NOBODY HAS ANY IDEA WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WITH THAT.

I REALLY REGRET THAT THE MAP DRAWN BY REPRESENTATIVE PRINGLE IN THE HOUSE WAS NOT ADOPTED BY THE SENATE AND SIGNED INTO LAW BY THE GOVERNOR.

I THINK THAT ONE WOULD HAVE MET THE COURT'S CRITERIA, AND THIS COULD HAVE STAYED IN ALABAMIAN'S HANDS.

NOW WE'VE GOT SOME SPECIAL MASTER AND THERE'S NO TELLING WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

AND ANYBODY THAT TELLS YOU THEY KNOW IS TELLING YOU A STORY.

>> WITH CONGRESS RETURNING FROM THE AUGUST RECESS, ROGERS OFFERED AND UPDATE ON THE FEDERAL SPENDING DECISIONS THAT ARE APPROACHING WITH THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR.

HE DESCRIBED A TOXIC SITUATION FRAUGHT WITH POLITICAL BRINKSMANSHIP.

>> THE SENATE WENT BACK THIS WEEK.

WE GO BACK NEXT WEEK, AND THE IMMEDIATE CHALLENGE WE HAVE IS THE FISCAL YEAR ENDS SEPTEMBER 30TH.

WE'VE GOT TO PASS SPENDING BILLS BY SEPTEMBER 30TH, OR THE GOVERNMENT TECHNICALLY SHUTS DOWN.

WE HAVE PASSED ONE OUT OF TWELVE APPROPRIATIONS BILLS.

THE IDEA THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET THE OTHER TWELVE PASSED IN THE NEXT THREE WEEKS IS JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO THE QUESTION IS IS THERE GOING TO BE A SHUTDOWN, OR IS THERE GOING TO BE WHAT WE CALL A CONTINUING RESOLUTION, WHICH MEANS YOU TAKE THE EXISTING YEAR'S SPENDING LEVELS AND YOU CONTINUE THOSE FOR A TIME CERTAIN -- A WEEK, THREE WEEKS, A MONTH, WHATEVER.

AND, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD, THERE'S GOING TO BE A CONTINUING RESOLUTION.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF, YOU KNOW, HOW LONG AND WHAT THE NUMBER IS.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR ALL THE FUSS ABOUT.

THE FAR RIGHT WING OF MY PARTY, WHO I DON'T LIKE TO OWN SOMETIMES, BUT IT'S LIKE KINSFOLK, YOU CAN'T GET RID OF THEM, THEY'RE KIN TO YOU AND JUST -- [LAUGHTER] THEY HAVE SOME UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS ON HOW LOW THAT CR NUMBER SHOULD BE.

AND WE'VE GOT SOME ADDED PRESSURE IN THAT THE SENATE'S PASSED ALL THEIR APPROPRIATIONS BILLS, AND THEY'RE WORKING IN A BIPARTISAN FASHION, AND IN THAT CONSTRAIN BY TRYING TO SPEND 2019, 2020, OR 2021 LEVELS, WHICH IS WHAT THE FAR RIGHT IN THE HOUSE IS PUSHING.

THE COMPLICATING FACTOR NOW THAT WE NORMALLY DON'T HAVE IS, BECAUSE WE ONLY HAVE A FOUR-SEAT MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE, THE FAR RIGHT IS SAYING TO THE SPEAKER, IF YOU CUT A DEAL WITH THE DEMOCRATS -- IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE MAJORITY OF THE REPUBLICANS VOTE WITH SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS FOR A CONTINUED RESOLUTION THAT DOES NOT MEET OUR CRITERIA, WE'RE GOING TO VOTE TO REMOVE YOU FROM SPEAKER.

WHETHER THEY CAN PULL THAT OFF OR NOT IS ANOTHER STORY, BUT IT COMPLICATES THINGS.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE FACING WHEN WE GO BACK NEXT WEEK AND I'M NOT LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.

>> ROGERS ALSO SPOKE ABOUT THE WAR IN UKRAINE, WITH THE WESTERN SUPPORTED UKRAINIANS TRYING TO FIGHT OFF A RUSSIAN INVASION.

AS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE, ROGERS IS A KEY PLAYER IN MILITARY POLICY.

HE SAID FIGHTING OFF THE RUSSIANS IS CRITICAL TO THE UNITED STATES' STRATEGIC INTERESTS AND IS WORTH THE COST.

>> ON THIS IDEA OF UKRAINE, THERE'S A LOT OF CHATTER IN THE NEWS MEDIA THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS DEALING WITH UKRAINE AND WE NEED TO CUT OFF FUNDING.

I JUST WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND, THAT IS NOT AN OPTION.

UKRAINE -- AND I TALKED ABOUT THIS HERE YEARS AGO -- BUT UKRAINE IS A REALLY BIG FARM IN EASTERN EUROPE THAT IS NOT IN N.A.T.O., RIGHT UP AGAINST RUSSIA'S BORDER.

BUT EVERY COUNTRY AROUND IT IS IN N.A.T.O., AND WE'RE IN N.A.T.O.

WE ARE THE MILITARY MIGHT OF N.A.T.O.

WELL, N.A.T.O.

HAS A PROVISION, IT'S CALLED ARTICLE 5, THAT IF ANY MEMBER NATION IS INVADED BY ANOTHER NATION, ALL OTHER N.A.T.O.

MEMBERS WILL COME TO THEIR AID AND PUSH THE INVADING ARMY BACK OUT.

WELL, YOU SAID, UKRAINE IS NOT IN N.A.T.O.

NO, THEY'RE NOT.

BUT RUSSIA -- PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS MADE IT CLEAR, ONCE HE'S THROUGH THERE, HE'S GOING EITHER INTO THE BALTICS OR POLAND OR BOTH.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE'VE TRIGGERED ARTICLE 5 AND WE'RE SENDING OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS AND BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND MOMS AND DADS OVER THERE TO FIGHT, AND THE MONEY WE'RE SPENDING NOW WILL BE NOTHING, IT WILL BE CHURCH CHANGE COMPARED TO MOBILIZING THE TROOPS WE WILL NEED TO MOVE -- MOBILIZE FOR WORLD WAR III, WHICH IS WHAT IT WILL BE.

THAT'S PART OF IT.

THE OTHER PART WHICH I THINK IS JUST AS IMPORTANT IS WE NEED TO BE THERE TO MAKE SURE WE SHOW DESPOTS AROUND THE WORLD THAT YOU CAN'T JUST INVADE ANOTHER SOVEREIGN COUNTRY AND GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE WE HAVE A FELLOW NAME XI IN CHINA WATCHING THIS WITH BAITED BREATH.

IF THIS IS SUCCESSFUL, HE'S GOING TO BECOME MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE AROUND THE GLOBE WITH US AND OUR ALLIES AND WE CAN'T LET THAT HAPPEN.

>> U.S.

SENATOR TOMMY TUBERVILLE TOOK SOME FLACK THIS WEEK FROM TOP PENTAGON OFFICIALS OVER HIS HOLD ON MILITARY PROMOTIONS IN PROTEST OF A NEW DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE POLICY THAT PAYS FOR SERVICE MEMBERS OR THEIR FAMILY'S OUT OF STATE TRAVEL EXPENSES TO OBTAIN ABORTIONS.

IN AN OP-ED IN THE WASHINGTON POST, THE SECRETARIES OF THE ARMY, AIR FORCE AND NAVY CALLED ON TUBERVILLE TO END HIS HOLD AND ACCUSED HIM OF PUTTING NATIONAL SECURITY AT RISK.

THE OP-ED SAYS, "THESE MILITARY LEADERS ARE BEING FORCED TO ENDURE COSTLY SEPARATIONS FROM THEIR FAMILIES -- A PAINFUL EXPERIENCE THEY HAVE COME TO KNOW FROM NEARLY 20 YEARS OF DEPLOYMENTS TO PLACES SUCH AS IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN," THE SECRETARIES WROTE.

"ALL BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF A SINGLE SENATOR."

NAVY SECRETARY CARLOS DEL TORO WENT FURTHER IN A CNN INTERVIEW ACCUSING TUBERVILLE OF QUOTE "AIDING AND ABETTING COMMUNISTS."

TUBERVILLE RESPONDED TO THOSE COMMENTS ON A PRESS CALL THIS WEEK, SAYING HIS HOLD WILL BE REMOVED ONCE THE PENTAGON REVERSES ITS POLICY OR THE SENATE VOTES UP OR DOWN ON A RELATED LAW.

>> IT DISAPPOINTS ME SOME OF THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY USE, BECAUSE I AM A UNITED STATES SENATOR.

I WOULD NEVER SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT ABOUT THEM IN THE NEWSPAPER.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE PLAYED OUT IN THE NEWSPAPER.

IF YOU NEED TO VISIT WITH ME, CALL ME OR COME SEE ME.

THEY KNOW WHERE I'M AT, AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE THAT.

I'VE NOT TALKED TO ANY OF THEM ABOUT THIS.

IT JUST GOES TO SHOW YOU THIS IS ALL PROPAGANDA THAT'S BEEN CARRIED ON BY THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAYING Y'ALL HAVE GOT TO START PUTTING PRESSURE ON THIS SENATOR.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT PRESSURE IS, OKAY.

I DON'T FEEL ANY PRESSURE AT ALL, BUT I DO HAVE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, VETERANS AND PRESENT MILITARY PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPORTING ME.

SO, AGAIN, I'M NOT DOING THIS FOR A BLUE RIBBON.

I'M DOING THIS BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHANGED A POLICY AND A LAW THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO DO IT THE WAY THEY'VE DONE IT THROUGH A MEMO.

LET'S VOTE ON IT.

IF WE VOTE ON IT, I'LL ACCEPT THE CONSEQUENCES EITHER WAY AND WE'LL TAKE THE HOLDS OFF.

BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO HUNDREDS AT A TIME.

THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> BACK HERE TO THE STATE HOUSE, WHERE A MEETING OF THE JOINT LEGISLATIVE CONTRACT REVIEW COMMITTEE HAPPENED THIS WEEK.

THIS PANEL REVIEWS ALL SERVICES AND LEGAL CONTRACTS ENTERED INTO BY STATE AGENCIES.

AND BECAUSE WE ARE COMING UP ON THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, THIS MEETING WAS BIGGER THAN USUAL.

IN ALL, MORE THAN 190 CONTRACTS WERE REVIEWED.

THE BIGGEST DUST UP HAPPENED OVER A DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION DESIGN BUILD CONTRACT FOR THE WEST ALABAMA CORRIDOR EXPANSION PLANED FOR HIGHWAY 43.

CRITICS OF THAT PROJECT, INCLUDING STATE SENATOR CHRIS ELLIOT, HAVE QUESTIONED THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES BEING DEDICATED TO IT.

BUT SUPPORTERS SAY IT'S A CRITICAL PROJECT FOR WEST ALABAMA AND THE BLACK BELT.

WHEN ELLIOT MOVED TO BUT A HOLD ON THE CONTRACT, STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS ENGLAND SAID HE WOULD HOLD UP ALL OTHER DOT CONTRACTS UNTIL THE PROJECT CAN MOVE FORWARD.

>> UM, IN THE LAST JOINTS TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE MEETING, I ASKED WHAT THE PROJECTED BUDGET WAS FOR THE WEST ALABAMA CORRIDOR.

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH OR HAVE AN IDEA WHAT THE WEST ALABAMA CORRIDOR'S GOING TO COST?

>> WELL, THE INITIAL -- YOU'RE SEEING THE PRELIMINARY DESIGN IS 74 MILLION.

THE ESTIMATE DONE ABOUT A YEAR AGO WAS ABOUT $800 MILLION.

WITH THE ADDITIONAL COSTS, IT'S GOING TO GO HIGHER.

IT SHOULD NOT GO THAT MUCH HIGHER, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE UNTIL WE NEGOTIATE EACH SEGMENT OF THE PROGRESSIVE DESIGN BILL.

>> WHAT IF THE PRICE DOUBLES OR GETS, YOU KNOW, WELL OVER -- >> WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE TO THAT.

KEEP IN MIND, THAT IS WHAT'S CALLED A PROGRESSIVE DESIGN BILL, OKAY.

YOU SET UP THE INITIAL CONTRACTORS YOU START DOING DESIGN WORK WITH US RIGHT THERE, WE HAVE INDEPENDENT COST ESTIMATORS LOOKING AT THE COST, SEEING WHAT THE CONTRACTOR IS SENDING US IS REASONABLE.

AND THEN THEY PROVIDE SEGMENTS.

ONE OF THE REQUIREMENTS WAS WE WANTED IT IN USABLE SEGMENTS, SO, WHEN THOSE SEGMENTS ARE COMPLETE, WE CAN OPEN IT TO TRAFFIC.

PEOPLE CAN START MOVING -- I MEAN, USING IT IMMEDIATELY WHILE THEY'RE WORKING ON DIFFERENT SEGMENTS.

KEEP IN MIND, THIS IS A 75-MILE PROJECT.

SO IT WAS IMPORTANT TO US TO MAKE SURE THOSE SEGMENTS COULD BE OPENED AND USED BY THE PUBLIC AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

SO, IF WE START GOING ALONG AND IT GETS OUT OF HAND, WE WON'T AGREE TO THE PRICE.

>> I'M IN A POSITION TO START HOLDING UP ALL THESE CONTRACTS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO PIT DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE STATE AGAINST EACH OTHER AND THEN SAY, WELL, THIS PROJECT IS MORE IMPORTANT, SO, ONCE AGAIN, THE BLACK BELT, WHERE THERE ARE A BUNCH OF POOR FOLKS, A LOT OF BLACK FOLKS, ARE NOW HAVING TO WAIT TO SEE IF THEY'RE WORTHY ENOUGH FOR THE SAME INVESTMENT THAT GOES IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE.

SO I'M JUST TELLING YOU, IF WE'RE HOLDING UP CONTRACTS FOR THE WEST ALABAMA PROJECT AND THE CORRIDOR AND WE'RE SLOWING IT DOWN BECAUSE OF MONEY, THEN I'M GOING TO START DOING THE SAME THING FOR THE REST OF THEM, BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO ADVOCATE FOR MY AREA, TOO.

WE'VE GOT THE SAME COMPLAINTS, ISSUES AND PROBLEMS.

AND I'M GOING TO SAY THAT MY FOLKS ARE JUST AS IMPORTANT AS ANYBODY ELSE IN THE STATE.

>> WE'VE AGREED THAT, SENATOR ELLIOTT, THE RULES COMMITTEE WILL STAND, THAT THIS WILL BE HELD, BUT THE AGREEMENT IS THAT YOU WILL SIT DOWN AND TALK WITH HIM AND MAYBE THE THREE OF US AND ANY OF US OTHERS THAT WANT TO COME NEXT WEEK AND COME TO AN UNDERSTANDING.

THE GOAL IS TO SIT AND HAVE QUESTIONS ANSWERED, AND THEN THE WHOLE WILL BE DEALT WITH.

>> AND IN THE BEST INTEREST OF TRANSPARENCY AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE CONTRACTS, I WANT TO PUT A HOLD ON ALL OF THEM UNTIL YOU SPEAK TO SENATOR ELLIOTT AND MAKE SURE HIS QUESTIONS ARE ANSWERED.

>> OKAY.

>> AND THEN, ONCE THAT OCCURS, THEN I THINK WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MOVE FORWARD.

>> I'LL SPEAK WITH COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN DAN ROBERTS IN MORE DETAIL COMING UP IN A BIT.

A KEY CIVIL RIGHTS ANNIVERSARY IS COMING UP NEXT WEEK.

THE TRAGIC BOMBING OF A BIRMINGHAM CHURCH THAT KILLED FOUR LITTLE GIRLS HAPPENED 60 YEARS AGO.

RANDY SCOTT REPORTS FROM BIRMINGHAM AS THE AREA PREPARES TO MARK THE SOLEMN ANNIVERSARY.

>> SEPTEMBER 15TH, 1963, SERVICE IS ABOUT TO BEGIN AT BIRMINGHAM'S 16TH STREET BAPTIST CHURCH.

A GROUP OF GIRLS GO DOWNSTAIRS TO GET READY.

>> THAT'S WHEN I HEARD A LOUD SOUND, BOOM!

AND ALL I COULD DO IS HOLLER, JESUS!

AND I CALLED ADDIE, ADDIE, ADDIE, ADDIE, BUT SHE DIDN'T ANSWER.

SO I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO THEM BECAUSE I WAS BLIND FROM THE DEBRIS RUSHING IN ON ME BECAUSE IT WAS STANDING BY THE WINDOW, AND I WAS ACROSS FROM THEM BY THE SINK.

>> SARAH COLLINS RUDOLPH WAS SERIOUSLY INJURED BY THE BOMB BLAST.

HER SISTER AND THREE OTHER GIRLS DID NOT SURVIVE.

>> THEY HAD TO REMOVE MY RIGHT EYE, AND I HAVE A PROSTHETIC.

AND IT'S ALWAYS REMINDING ME OF IT, JUST SEEING IT ALL THE TIME AND THINK ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD NEVER FORGET.

>> 60 YEARS AGO, THE 16TH STREET BAPTIST CHURCH WAS PLACED INTO HISTORY DUE TO TRAGEDY, WHEN A BOMB WENT OFF IN THE BASEMENT OF THIS STRUCTURE, DAMAGING IT BUT, WORSE YET, KILLING FOUR LITTLE BLACK GIRLS.

60 YEARS LATER, THAT PAIN IS STILL BEING FELT.

>> I WAS INJURED, BUT FOR NO REASON AT ALL, YOU KNOW, AND, SO, THOSE GIRLS WERE KILLED FOR NO REASON.

THEY SHOULD STILL BE ALIVE TODAY IF IT WASN'T FOR SO MANY PEOPLE THAT -- RACISTS.

>> IT WAS THAT EVENT THAT LED PEOPLE TO SEE HOW SAVAGE THINGS HAD BECOME AND THE EXTENT TO WHAT PEOPLE WILL GO THROUGH TO TRY TO PROVE A POINT, SO TO SPEAK, OR TO TRY TO MAINTAIN A STATUS QUO SEGREGATION.

>> AS THE 60 ANNIVERSARY OF THE BOMBING APPROACHES, STEPS ARE BEING TAKEN TO HELP PEOPLE COPE WITH IT DECADES LATER.

BETHEL BAPTIST CHURCH ONCE LED BY REVEREND FRED SHUTTLESWORTH IS HOSTING A CONFERENCE ADDRESSING THIS PTSD.

>> STUDYING HISTORY AND UNDERSTANDING THERE'S HOPE AND BIRMINGHAM IS THE PROVERBIAL BALM OF GILEAD AND WE DO OFFER HEALING FOR ALL THE PEOPLE.

>> THE CONFERENCE CALL, THERE IS A BALM OF GILEAD DASH HEALING EVENTS OF 1963.

THE PURPOSE OF THAT EVENT AND THAT CONFERENCE IS TO HELP PEOPLE WHO WERE EITHER BYSTANDERS OR PERPETRATORS OR VICTIMS OF THE VIOLENCE TO COME TOGETHER TO HEAL BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO STILL HAVE NOT HEALED.

60 YEARS LATER, THEY'VE NOT BEEN ABLE TO TALK ABOUT IT IN A CONSTRUCTIVE WAY.

>> FOR "CAPITOL JOURNAL," I'M RANDY SCOTT.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH TONIGHT'S GUESTS.

>> JOINING ME NEXT IS STATE SENATOR DAN ROBERTS OF BIRMINGHAM.

SENATOR, THANKS FOR COMING ON "CAPITOL JOURNAL."

>> PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME THIS WEEK.

>> SO YOU ARE THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT LEGISLATIVE CONTRACT REVIEW COMMITTEE, AND THIS IS THE COMMITTEE THAT REVIEWS THE RANGE OF CONTRACTS THAT STATE AGENCIES ENTER INTO.

AND, SO, TODAY, THIS WEEK, WAS KIND OF YOUR MONSTER MEETING BECAUSE WE'RE APPROACHING THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO GET IN THE CONTRACTS BEFORE THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR, SO A REAL MARATHON MEETING.

TALK ABOUT YOUR CONTRACT REVIEW IN YOUR ROLE AS CHAIRMAN AND THE COMMITTEE'S ROLE IN STATE GOVERNMENT.

I TOOK OVER AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR FOR CONTRACT REVIEW, AND IT'S A PIVOTAL COMMITTEE IN THAT IT'S CRITICAL THAT WE REVIEW EACH STATE CONTRACT, AND THE GOAL IS TRANSPARENCY.

WE'VE CHANGED THE FORM SO THAT WE KNOW MORE ABOUT THOSE WITH WHOM WE DO BUSINESS WITH, AND THEN REQUIRE INFORMATION.

BEFORE, YOU MIGHT JUST PUT XLLC, OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, SO WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DIVE INTO THAT TO GET MEMBERSHIP.

EVEN TODAY WE HAD STUFF WE HAD TO GO INTO DEEPER LEVEL TO KNOW WHO INDEED IS BLIND EACH CONTRACT THE STATE DEALS WITH.

SO IN DOING THAT WE FEEL LIKE WE'RE PROVIDING MORE TRANSPARENCY.

YOU HEARD DISCUSSIONS WHERE SOLE-SOURCE CONTRACTS WERE A BONE OF CONTENTION FOR ME AND MANY ON THE COMMITTEE AS WELL.

>> YEAH, TALK ABOUT IT.

WE KEPT HEARING THE TERM.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> SOLE SOURCE IS A BOX CHECKED ON THE FORMS THAT WE HAVE THAT BASICALLY SUMMARIZES WHAT CONTRACTS ARE ABOUT.

WE HAVE MANY CONTRACTS WITH OUT OF STATE VENDORS AND COMPANIES.

YOU MAY HAVE HEARD ME DISCUSS THAT TODAY THAT WE HAVE SO MANY QUALIFIED ALABAMA BUSINESSES THAT SHOULD BE DOING BUSINESS WITH OUR STATE, AND, SO, WE PUSH BACK WHEN A GROUP BRING US A CONTRACT AND IT'S EITHER A SOLE SOURCE SAYING THESE ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT CAN PROVIDE THIS SERVICE, WE QUESTION THAT AND WANT TO SEE THINGS PUT OUT FOR BID SO THAT OUR COMPANIES, OUR CITIZENS HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO BUSINESS WITH THE STATE OF ALABAMA, AND IT PROVIDES GREATER TRANSPARENCY FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING.

SO WE WORK VERY HARD AT THAT BECAUSE OUR BUSINESS CLIMATE, AS YOU KNOW, IS GROWING HERE.

WE PASSED THAT BILL YOU AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT MANY TIMES, ALABAMA BUSINESS COMPETITIVE TAX IN 2021, AND WE WANT TO DO BUSINESS WITH ALABAMA BUSINESSES WHENEVER POSSIBLE HERE IN OUR STATE.

>> SO PEOPLE MIGHT BE FAMILIAR WITH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS BECAUSE Y'ALL PASSED THESE BUDGETS THAT INCLUDES A LOT OF SPENDING FOR AGENCIES.

BUT THEN THAT'S NOT THE END OF THE LINE.

THE AGENCIES THEN GO AND CONTRACT WITH VARIOUS VENDORS.

THE BIGGEST ONES SEEMS TO BE THE MEDICAID AND HEALTH CONTRACTS OBVIOUSLY ARE VERY EXPENSIVE.

SOME OF THE PRISON CONTRACTS HAVE BEEN PRETTY BIG IN THE PAST.

TODAY IT WAS THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

SOME REALLY BIG CONTRACTS, YOU KNOW, ENGINEERING, SOME OF THE BIGGER PROJECTS.

REALLY THAT ONE DOWN IN SOUTH ALABAMA, THE HIGHWAY 43, THE WEST ALABAMA CORRIDOR, THERE WAS SOME CONTENTION ABOUT THAT.

WALK ME THROUGH SOME OF THE QUESTIONS YOUR MEMBERS HAD AND WHAT ULTIMATELY HAPPENED.

>> WELL, WE HAD VERY SIGNIFICANT QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT AS IN COSTS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT APPROPRIATING THE REBUILD ALABAMA FUNDS AND THE REBUILD ALABAMA FUNDS ARE GENERATED THROUGH THE NEW GAS TAX THAT WAS PASSED IN 2019, I BELIEVE.

AND DOING THAT EFFICIENTLY AND, SO, IN DOING THAT, THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH WANTS TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THE WESTERN CORRIDOR.

AND WE HAD MEMBERS ON THE COMMITTEE TODAY, THEY'RE VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THAT.

WE HAD OTHERS THAT WERE GNOSTIC, AND OTHERS THAT FELT LIKE DOING SOMETHING ON HIGHWAY INTERSTATE 65 WAS OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE.

YOU SEE THAT PLAYED OUT IN SOCIAL MEDIA, SO THAT'S WHERE THAT CAME TO A HEAD TODAY AND THAT WAS FOR THE DESIGN BUILD CONTRACT TO ACCOMPLISH THE WESTERN CORRIDOR.

EVERYTHING'S IN PROPER ORDER FOR THAT CONTRACT TO COME THROUGH.

THE GOVERNOR CERTAINLY WANTS TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.

SO ONE MEMBER WANTED TO HOLD THAT CONTRACT, AND ANOTHER MEMBER DID NOT WANT IT TO HAPPEN.

AND, BY THIS TIME, WE'RE PROBABLY AT THE TWO-PLUS-HOUR TIME.

WE HAD OTHER MEMBERS THAT HAD TO LEAVE FOR PRIOR COMMITMENTS.

THIS WAS OUR LONGEST MEETING THAT WE'VE HAD SO FAR, AND IT IS ANNUALLY OUR LARGEST MEETING.

WE HAD 198 CONTRACTS SUBMITTED TODAY AND OF THAT 195 WERE ON THE AGENDA.

SO IT WAS A FULL PLATE, A FULL COMPLEMENT OF ALMOST EVERY AGENCY WAS THERE TODAY.

AND WE WENT THROUGH THOSE EXPEDITIOUSLY BUT THOROUGHLY, AND YOU HEARD MANY OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE ASKED IN THE MEETING.

LOOK, WE'VE GOT A GREAT COMMITTEE OF ALL PARTS OF THE STATE THAT ARE REPRESENTED THERE.

SO IT CAME DOWN TO, ON THE WESTERN CORRIDOR CONTRACT, ONE MEMBER WANTED TO HOLD THAT BECAUSE HE HAD QUESTIONS WITH THE ALABAMA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

SO I ALLOWED MEMBERS TO HOLD A CONTRACT INDIVIDUALLY UNTIL THEY GET THEIR QUESTIONS ANSWERED ON IT.

WE CAN HOLD A CONTRACT UP TO 45 DAYS.

SO I ADJOURNED THE MEETING FOR A MOMENT.

WE WENT BACK IN A BACK ROOM, AND THE MEMBERS THAT WERE -- >> I SAW THAT.

TELL US WHAT HAPPENED BEHIND THE SCENES THERE.

>> BEHIND THE SCENES -- WE MET AS A GROUP, AND I POINTED OUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME THAT WE ALLOW THE MEMBERS TO STILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD A CONTRACT TO GET QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND, YET, HAD WE VOTED ON THAT, IT WOULD HAVE PASSED AT THE MOMENT.

SO WE WERE IN A SITUATION, I WANTED TO UPHOLD THE INTEGRITY OF EACH INDIVIDUAL MEMBER'S OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD A CONTRACT.

SO WE CAME TO A COMPROMISE THAT IT WOULD BE HELD FOR TODAY.

THE OTHER MEMBER FELT THAT IT WAS IMPORTANT THEN TO HOLD EVERY OTHER TRANSPORTATION CONTRACT FOR THE DAY, SO ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN AS WELL.

BUT I'M ANTICIPATING A MEETING HAPPENING NEXT WEEK TO RESOLVE THE QUESTIONS THAT ARE OUT THERE AND I ANTICIPATE THAT BEING HELD NEXT WEEK AND THE CONTRACT MOVING FORWARD ALONG WITH EVERY OTHER TRANSPORTATION CONTRACT.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE THE COMMITTEE DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DISAPPROVE OR CANCEL CONTRACTS, BUT HOLDING IT IS KIND OF A PENALTY -- >> IT IS.

>> -- TO GET THOSE QUESTIONS ANSWERED.

HOW LONG DOES THAT TYPICALLY LAST?

IS IT A WEEK?

DOES IT LAST THE FULL 45 DAYS?

>> WE'VE HAD A FEW THAT HAVE GONE THE WHOLE 45 DAYS.

WE HAVE OTHERS THE CONTRACTS HAVE WOUND UP BEING REMOVED OR WITHDRAWN.

I MEAN, WE HEARD ONE REFERENCE TODAY IN RELATION TO A SCULPTURE THAT WAS GOING TO GO IN FRONT OF A BUILDING THAT I DON'T THINK ANYONE ON THE COMMITTEE THOUGHT WAS AN APPROPRIATE USE OF FUNDS AND THAT CONTRACT WAS REMOVED, HELD, BUT THAT RESULTED IN IT NOT HAPPENING.

SOMETIMES WE ARE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH DEPARTMENTS BEFORE AND THEY'LL PULL A CONTRACT BECAUSE THEY REALIZE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO IT.

SO IT'S AN IMPORTANT INTEGRAL PROCESS TO SEEING THE CONTRACTS MOVE FORWARD.

A LOT OF TIMES IT'S SHINING LIGHT ON WHAT THE CONTRACT IS.

>> SURE.

AND US IN THE MEDIA, WE SEE THIS GIANT AGENDA OF CONTRACT TODAY, AND WE'RE PORING THROUGH IT.

SO, YEAH, A LOT OF MEDIA SCRUTINY, WHICH IS HEALTHY.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS -- SINCE YOU HAVE BEEN CHAIRMAN ABOUT A YEAR NOW, ARE YOU PLEASED WITH THE AUTHORITY OF THE COMMITTEE?

SHOULD IT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CANCEL CONTRACTS, OR IS IT APPROPRIATE -- ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE LEVEL OF AUTHORITY CONTRACT REVIEW HAS?

>> CURRENT LAW IS WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW.

IF THAT LAW IS GOING TO BE CHANGED, IT WILL BE CHANGED.

I'VE GOT SOME MEMBERS WHO THINK THERE SHOULD BE MORE AUTHORITY GIVEN IN THOSE CONTRACTS, SO I THINK WE'LL WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE ON THAT.

BUT, OFTENTIMES, IT'S WHAT YOU SAID JUST A MINUTE AGO, SHINING LIGHT ON THESE OFTENTIMES CAN HELP ACCOMPLISH THE OBJECTIVE THAT DIFFERENT MEMBERS HAVE FOR THESE CONTRACTS.

SO IT'S AN EFFECTIVE TOOL, BUT WE NEED THE MEDIA WORKING TOGETHER TO GET THE WORD OUT ON THINGS, OFTENTIMES, ABOUT WHAT'S ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE WITH THE DOLLARS THAT WE APPROPRIATE.

IT'S WHAT YOU SAID, WE APPROPRIATE LARGE SUMS OF MONEY, BUT THEN THOSE ARE CONTRACTED OUT, AND THIS IS A SECOND SHOT AT THE APPROPRIATIONS THAT WE MAKE ANNUALLY IN OUR BUDGETS.

>> YEP, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE, EVEN IF WE'VE GOT TO SIT THROUGH A TWO AND A HALF HOUR -- LOOK, YOU WERE THE ONE UP THERE ACTUALLY WORKING THE MEETING SO I KNOW THAT MUST HAVE BEEN EXHAUSTING.

WHILE I'VE GOT YOU, AND I KNOW WE REALLY HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THIS, BUT WE'RE IN THE WAKE OF THE REDISTRICTING RULE COMING DOWN FROM THE THREE-JUDGE PANEL THERE IN BIRMINGHAM, LIKELY HEADED BACK TO THE SUPREME COURT -- AT LEAST THE ATTORNEY GENERAL WANTS IT THAT WAY.

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION, GIVEN IT WAS KIND OF THE SENATE MAP THAT PREVAILED AND NOW THAT'S BEING TOSSED OUT, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE -- WERE YOU SURPRISED?

YOU KNOW, WHAT WAS YOUR GENERAL TAKEAWAY FROM THE RULING?

>> I WAS VERY HOPEFUL GOING -- AT THE END OF THAT PROCESS THAT WE'D COME UP WITH ONE OF THE MOST COMPACT AND CONCISE MAPS WE'VE EVER DONE FOR CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

I WAS HOPEFUL THAT IT WOULD BE FOUND FAVORABLY BY THE THREE-JUDGE PANEL.

IT WAS NOT AND A MASTER HAS BEEN APPOINTED TO DRAW THREE MAPS OF WHICH THE THREE-JUDGE PANEL WILL CHOOSE ONE.

I BELIEVE VERY MUCH IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS THAT IT'S OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO DRAW THESE DISTRICTS, NOT THE COURT'S, IS WHAT I THINK.

AND, SO, I DON'T AGREE WITH THE DECISION OF THAT THREE-JUDGE PANEL, BUT IT'S THEIR PREROGATIVE TO DO WHAT THEY'VE DONE, AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, I BELIEVE, HAS APPEALED THAT AND, SO, I THINK WE'LL SEE WHAT PLAYS OUT FROM HERE.

I WAS DISAPPOINTED.

>> WELL, WE'LL HAVE PLENTY MORE TO SAY ABOUT THAT IN THE COMING WEEKS AS THIS, AGAIN, LIKELY GOES BACK TO THE SUPREME COURT.

WE'LL SEE WHETHER OR NOT THEY EVEN PLAN TO HEAR IT.

BUT A THORNY ISSUE.

>> I BELIEVE IT TAKES FIVE JUDGES TO AGREE TO HEAR THIS.

>> RIGHT.

>> SO I THINK WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

>> WE'LL WATCH IT CLOSELY.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

SENATOR ROBERTS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> APPRECIATE YOU, SIR.

HAVE A GOOD DAY.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> JOINING ME NEXT IS DR. NANCY PACK OF THE ALABAMA LIBRARY SERVICE.

DR.

PACK, THANK YOU FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, TODD.

>> WE'VE GOT A LOT OF ISSUES TO TALK ABOUT.

>> OH, YEAH.

>> BEFORE WE GET INTO IT, I WANTED TO REMIND YOU OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO REMIND OUR AUDIENCE ABOUT THE ALABAMA LIBRARY SERVICE AND ITS ROLE HERE IN THE STATE.

>> WELL, OUR NAME FOR ONE THING IS VERY CONFUSING.

WE ARE CALLED THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE, AND WHEN YOU GOOGLE THAT ON GOOGLE IT SHOWS US AS BEING A PUBLIC LIBRARY.

AND EVERY MONTH, WE HAVE ABOUT 20 OR 30 PEOPLE WE TURN AWAY AND WE SEND THEM TO THE MONTGOMERY CITY COUNTY LIBRARY BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES FOR PUBLIC LIBRARY USERS, NOR THE COLLECTION THAT'S GEARED TOWARDS THE AVERAGE PUBLIC LIBRARY USER.

THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE HAS AN EXECUTIVE BOARD OF SEVEN MEMBERS, AND IT'S THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO APPROVE LONG-RANGE PLANS FOR US AS AN AGENCY STATEWIDE IN ORDER FOR US TO RECEIVE FEDERAL FUNDS.

AND WITHIN THAT, OUR OBJECTIVE IS TO ENRICH OUR PUBLIC LIBRARIES.

AND WITH THAT, OUR ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE BOARD OF TRUSTEES DO CERTIFY LIBRARIES IN ALABAMA.

EVERYBODY IS WELCOME TO HAVE A PUBLIC LIBRARY AND CALL THEIR LIBRARIES PUBLIC, BUT IF YOU COME THROUGH THE CERTIFICATION THROUGH THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE, YOU ARE VETTED.

AND THE REASON WE DO THAT IS, IN HELPING SMALL COMMUNITIES -- OUR COMMUNITIES ESTABLISH LIBRARIES, OUR BOARD OF TRUSTEES WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS THE FUNDING AND THE COMMUNITY HAS THE SUPPORT FOR OUR PUBLIC LIBRARIES.

SO THAT IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS WE ASK OFF THE BAT, DO YOU HAVE A LETTER FROM YOUR CITY COUNCIL OR DO YOU HAVE AN ORDINANCE IN SUPPORT OF DEVELOPING A PUBLIC LIBRARY?

AND THAT TELLS US THAT IT'S THERE.

THE NEXT THING THAT WE HAVE OTHER CRITERIAS THAT WE ASK THE LIBRARIES FOR SUCH AS POLICIES AND DIFFERENT THINGS THEIR GOING TO DO INCLUDING A LONG-RANGE PLAN, WHAT THEIR GOALS ARE FOR THEIR COMMUNITY, AND KIND OF VETS THEY WILL BE WORKING TOWARDS THAT AND ESTABLISHES, IT MAKES THEM THINK ABOUT HOW THEY WILL BE ADMINISTERING THEIR LIBRARY AND WHAT KIND OF POLICIES AND PROCEDURES THEY NEED.

BECAUSE IF YOU'RE NOT -- YOU KNOW, THEY HIRE -- THE CODE OF ALABAMA LETS US ESTABLISH THAT AUTHORITY FOR MY LIBRARY BOARD.

THE NEXT STEP IS CHAPTER 90 IN THE CODE OF ALABAMA GIVES THE AUTHORITY OF RUNNING PUBLIC LIBRARIES TO THE MAYOR AND THE GOVERNMENTS TO APPOINT A BOARD.

NOW, THEY DID THAT PURPOSELY.

>> SO ON A LOCAL LEVEL.

>> THEY DID THAT PURPOSELY ON A LOCAL LEVEL SO YOU WOULD HAVE GOVERNMENTS FUNDING AND THE PUBLIC LIBRARY BOARD SETTING POLICY AND PROCEDURE AND TO HIRE A DIRECTOR THAT HIRES THE STAFF WHO OPERATE AND MANAGE BASED ON POLICY AND PROCEDURE AND OPERATES ON THE LONG-RANGE PLAN THEY HAVE DEVELOPED FOR THEIR COMMUNITY.

>> I SEE.

SO I GREW UP AT THE LIBRARY.

I CAN STILL SMELL IT.

YOU KNOW, I JUST GREW UP THERE.

MY PARENTS WERE BIG ON TAKING US TO THE LIBRARY AND IT WAS AN ADVENTURE.

I CAN'T SPEAK ENOUGH OF THE EXPERIENCE.

TIMES HAVE CHANGED.

WE'RE ALL ON OUR PHONES.

WE'VE GOT GOOGLE AND EVERYTHING.

TALK ABOUT LIBRARIES NOW IN THIS DIGITAL AGE WITH INFORMATION AT YOUR FINGERTIPS AND HOW YOU'VE SORT OF EVOLVED WITH THE TIMES.

>> WELL, THAT KIND OF COMES INTO WHAT THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICES' ROLE IS IN PROVIDING ADVICE AND INFORMATION, WEBINARS AND TRAINING TO OUR LIBRARIES.

WE COORDINATE WITH OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO GET THE BEST TECHNOLOGY THAT'S OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, WE TALK WITH VENDORS WHO DO PROGRAMS ON HOW TO SEARCH THEIR DATABASES.

YOU KNOW THE ALABAMA VIRTUAL LIBRARY.

THE PUBLIC LIBRARY HAS DATABASES THAT WE HAVE AND WE WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT THEY ARE LEGITIMATE AND THEY PROVIDE ACCURATE INFORMATION.

WE DO SOME TRAINING WITH OUR NEW DIRECTORS AND OUR PUBLIC LIBRARY STAFF ON HOW TO TRAIN PEOPLE TO KNOW GOOD INFORMATION AND BAD INFORMATION AND TAKE THOSE BACK WHERE THEY CAN WORK WITH -- YOU KNOW, LIBRARY'S ROLE IN TODAY'S TECHNOLOGY WORLD IS TO BE ABLE TO SAY THIS IS GOOD INFORMATION, THIS IS NOT SO GOOD INFORMATION, AND YOU MAKE THE JUDGMENT, WE'LL PROVIDE BOTH OPINIONS ON THIS.

BUT TECHNOLOGY HAS REALLY CHANGED THINGS, AND I THINK IT HAS CHANGED MOST WITH US IN OUR SERVICE THAT THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY DOES FOR THE REGIONAL LIBRARY FOR THE BLIND AND PHYSICALLY DISABLED BECAUSE, RIGHT NOW, WE'RE DOING DOWNLOADABLE BOOKS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE 91 AND 92.

WE PUT THEM ON CASSETTES AND HAVE TALKING BRAILLE.

SO OUR AGENCY WORKS WITH THAT IN HELPING THE INDIVIDUALS OVER THE PHONE HOW TO OPERATE THEIR EQUIPMENT.

ANOTHER ROLE THAT WE PLAY AT APLS IN THE TECHNOLOGY WORLD IS MOST OF OUR SMALL LIBRARIES, WE HAVE ABOUT 77 RURAL LIBRARIES THAT ARE UNDER THE POPULATION OF 10,000, AND THEY DON'T HAVE AN I.T.

PERSON.

SO WE HAVE AN I.T.

DIVISION THAT HELPS THEM AND TROUBLESHOOTS -- THEY WORK WITH US, AND WE HELP THEM WITH COMPUTERS.

WE GO AND INSTALL COMPUTERS, WE HELP THEM WHEN THEY HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THEIR INTERNET AND THAT KIND OF THING, AND -- >> IN A COMMUNITY, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE INTERNET, YOU CAN GO TO YOUR PUBLIC LIBRARY AND ACCESS THE INTERNET.

>> AND APLS PLAYS ANOTHER ROLE IN THAT.

MOST RECENTLY, WE WROTE A GRANT THROUGH APLS AND WE ARE PROVIDING WI-FI HOT SPOTS TO PUBLIC LIBRARIES TO ISSUE AND CIRCULATE IN THE BLACK BELT AND UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS OF ALABAMA.

SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OUR ROLE WITH THE PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND TECHNOLOGY, THAT'S KIND OF HOW APLS WORKS ALL INTO THAT IS THAT, WITHOUT THE HOT SPOTS CIRCULATING AT LIBRARIES, WHICH HAS BEEN A SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM -- WE HAVE ABOUT 136 HOT SPOTS IN SEVEN OR EIGHT LIBRARIES -- IT HAS ENABLED THOSE PEOPLE WHO WILL NEVER HAVE BROADBAND BECAUSE OF THEIR LOCATIONS.

>> EMPHASIZING THE WORD-SERVICE, IN A WORD, PUBLIC LIBRARY-SERVICE.

LET'S GET TO ISSUES.

THERE'S BEEN RECENT CONTROVERSY OVER CONTENT.

SOME LOCAL FLAREUPS IN A HANDFUL OF CITIES IN ALABAMA ABOUT CONTENT, SEXUALLY CHARGED THINGS, TALK ABOUT GENDER IDENTITY, THINGS LIKE THIS, BOOKS THAT WERE AVAILABLE TO CHILDREN, PARENTS HAVING SOME PROBLEMS WITH THAT AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

TALK ABOUT THAT FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, FROM THE STATE AGENCY AND HOW YOU'VE RESPONDED TO ALL THAT.

>> FROM THE STATE AGENCY, WE REALLY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THAT.

IT GOES DOWN TO THE LOCAL LEVEL.

THE LOCAL LEVEL DECIDES WHAT MATERIALS GO INTO THEIR COLLECTION, AND IT IS THE LOCAL LIBRARIES THAT SET THE POLICIES FOR THE VIEWING, WHERE THEY LOCATED THE MATERIALS, AND IT'S ALL UP TO LOCAL POLICY AND PROCEDURE.

FROM MY POINT OF VIEW -- OUR POINT OF VIEW IN MY LIBRARY CAREER, THERE'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE CENSORSHIP WHETHER IT'S THIS TOPIC OR WHETHER IT'S A TOPIC SUCH AS HALLOWEEN OR SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T LIKE THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS BECAUSE THEY HAVE SORCERY IN THEM.

WHEN YOU LOOK BACK THROUGH THE AGES, EVEN OUR FAMED ALABAMIAN "TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD" AUTHOR, HER BOOK WAS CRITICIZED AND BANNED AND WAS TAKEN OFF SHELVES.

AND WHAT I SEE IS THERE WILL ALWAYS BE SOME TYPE OF CENSORSHIP GOING ON IN LIBRARIES OVER SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE DOES NOT FEEL IS APPROPRIATE FOR THEIR COMMUNITY OR THEIR CHILD AND, PARTICULARLY, WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH CHILDREN, I AGREE WITH GOVERNOR IVEY, THE CHILDREN SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE THE LIBRARY AND ENCOURAGE THEM TO READ BECAUSE THAT'S A PLACE WHERE THEY CAN READ ANYTHING THEY WANT TO READ AND HAVE A WIDE ASSORTMENT OF BOOKS AND OPINIONS.

HOWEVER, I THINK THERE IS THE PARENTAL GUIDANCE THAT IS NEEDED IN A LIBRARY, WITH THE PARENTS DECIDING WHAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THEIR CHILD TO READ.

>> YEAH, I MEAN, I COULD UNDERSTAND WITH SOME OF THESE -- EVEN JUST THE TITLES OF THE BOOKS.

EVEN READ THEM, BUT, YEAH, PRETTY SEXUALLY CHARGED.

IF IT'S JUST KIND OF READILY AVAILABLE, I CAN UNDERSTAND SOME CONCERN FROM PARENTS IF THERE'S, IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION OF THE LIBRARY, IF THERE ARE SEXUALLY CHARGED, GENDER IDENTITY KIND OF THINGS.

SO TALK ABOUT THE BALANCE THAT LOCAL LIBRARIES HAVE TO HAVE BETWEEN THAT RIGHT TO INFORMATION, RIGHT, A CHILD HAS A RIGHT TO JUST PERUSE AND HAVE THE INFORMATION VERSUS COMMUNITY VALUES AND MAKING SURE THAT INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT IS PUT IN A DIFFERENT PLACE.

HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT AS A LOCAL LIBRARY?

>> IT'S REALLY HARD TO BALANCE THAT BECAUSE OF -- IN A LIBRARY, CHILDREN ARE GOING TO GO WHEREVER THEY WANT TO GO, I MEAN, AND YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE THE MINORITY OF BOOKS THAT ARE ON THE AMERICAN LIBRARY'S BANNED BOOK.

I DID A STUDY.

I FOUND OUT MOST OF THE LIBRARIES THAT CONTAINED THE TOP TEN LIST WERE LIBRARIES WHO WERE LARGE AND HAD DIVERSE POPULATIONS.

AND ONE OF THE TOP BOOKS THAT WAS BROUGHT TO THE APLS LIBRARY BOARD FOR READING AND SHOWING AT ONE OF OUR BOARD MEETINGS, ONLY ELEVEN LIBRARIES IN ALABAMA HAD THE BOOK.

>> THIS IS ONE OF THE BOOKS IN QUESTION?

>> BANNED -- IN QUESTION.

AND ONLY SEVEN PUBLIC LIBRARIES HAD IT.

AND OF THOSE SEVEN, THEY WERE LARGE LIBRARIES WHO HAVE DIVERSE POPULATIONS AND POPULATIONS OVER 75,000.

SO WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS -- THERE IS A BALANCE YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH, AND I THINK, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF VOLUMES OF BOOKS IN A LIBRARY, THE NUMBER OF BOOKS ON THIS TOPIC ARE NOT AS -- THEY'RE NOT THAT MANY AS PEOPLE THINK THERE ARE.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE OTHER POINT OF VIEW, WHERE YOU HAVE CHRISTIAN BOOKS, AND YOU HAVE THE OTHER TYPES OF STRAIGHT BOOKS, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT STRAIGHT COUPLES IN ROMANTIC SITUATIONS AND YOUR ROMANCE NOVELS AND A LOT OF THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> SO YOU'RE SAYING KIDS REALLY HAVE THE ACCESS TO ALL THAT, TOO.

THEY COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW, A PRETTY SEXY ROMANCE NOVEL IF THEY VENTURED INTO THAT SECTION OF THE LIBRARY.

>> IN YOUNG ADULT.

YOU REMEMBER, AS TEENS, WE USED TO READ BOOKS, LIKE "MR. AND MRS. BO JO JONES" OR "GO ASK ALICE."

>> I WAS ALL "HARDY BOYS."

>> YOU KNOW, TEENS ARE GOING TO FIND WHAT THEY WANT TO FIND.

AND THE PROBLEM IS IT TAKES THE PARENTS TO PROVIDE THIS GUIDANCE AND WORK WITH THEIR CHILDREN BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY -- CHILDREN MATURE THAT DIFFERENT AGES, AND CHILDREN AREN'T COOKIE CUTTERS.

YOU HAVE CHILDREN WHO HAVE DYSLEXIA, YOU HAVE CHILDREN WHO HAVE LEARNING DISABILITIES, AND YOU HAVE ALL SORTS OF CHILDREN.

AND WHEN YOU SAY THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE FOR ONE CHILD, IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE FOR ANOTHER.

SO IT GETS DOWN TO THE PARENT TALKING TO THE CHILD THAT'S APPROPRIATE.

YOU HAVE CHILDREN WHO WANT TO SEE THEIR FAMILY, AND YOU SEE -- IN MOST CHILDREN'S BOOKS YOU SEE A MOM, A DAD AND CHILDREN, AND YOU SEE RACIALLY MIXED FAMILIES AND DIFFERENT CHILDREN WITH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE -- WE CALL THEM, YOU KNOW -- WHO HAVE STEP BROTHERS AND SISTERS WHO ARE A DIFFERENT NATIONALITY OF THEM.

BUT WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO THE GAY AND LESBIAN BOOKS, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF THEM OUT THERE THAT SHOW TWO MOMS OR TWO DADS AND THE CHILD, AND THAT CHILD WANTS TO SEE THEIR FAMILY REPRESENTED LIKE IN ALL THESE OTHER BOOKS.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE MOM AND DAD AND CHILDREN HERE, WHY ISN'T MY TWO MOMS OR MY TWO DADS REPRESENTED LIKE THAT?

>> RIGHT.

AND YOU MENTIONED GOVERNOR IVEY.

SHE OBVIOUSLY WROTE YOU THIS LETTER -- >> YES.

>> -- THAT YOU'RE IN THE PROCESS OF RESPONDING.

I WON'T GET AHEAD OF THAT, BECAUSE I KNOW YOUR RESPONSE IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE LENGTHY AND LONG.

BUT, IN HER LETTER, I DIDN'T GET THE SENSE THAT IT WAS REALLY ABOUT GAY COUPLES OR ANYTHING, MORE ABOUT THE SEXUAL IDENTITY AND DRIVING AN AGENDA.

SHE ALSO BROUGHT UP THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION, AND THAT'S SORT OF BEEN BROUGHT UP HERE, TOO, AND HOW MUCH THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION MAY PUSH CERTAIN AGENDAS.

DO YOU FEEL PRESSURED, DO LOCAL LIBRARIES FEEL FRESH FROM THE ALA OR IS THIS MORE SMOKE THAN FIRE?

>> WELL, ALA DOES A LOT OF THINGS.

I MEAN, THEY REACH OUT TO A LOT OF PROGRAMS AND WORK WITH A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS, AND WORKING WITH CENSORED BOOKS AND THEIR READING LIST AND EVERYTHING ARE DEVELOPED BY LIBRARIANS AND SUBJECT SPECIALISTS.

AND ALAS NEVER HAS -- THEIR POLICIES AND PROCEDURES FOR FREEDOM TO READ, THEY'RE OUT THERE AS GUIDANCE.

WE DON'T PUSH THEM.

MOST LIBRARIES HAVE ADOPTED THEM, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO USE THEM.

VERY SELDOM.

YOU KIND OF LOOK AT LIBRARIES AND SAY YOU DON'T LOOK AT FREEDOM TO READ UNTIL YOU GET A CENSORED BOOK AND YOU PULL IT OUT, DUST IT OFF AND SAY, OKAY, WE HAVE AFFIRMED THESE IN OUR COLLECTION DEVELOPMENT POLICY, AND WE NEED TO LOOK AT WHAT WE'RE DOING.

BUT ALA, IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION DURING COVID TO HELP ALL THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE A LIBRARY ASSOCIATION, THEY WERE VERY -- PLAYED A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE IN HELPING US GET THROUGH THE DISASTROUS COVID.

THEY HAD THE ABILITY TO BRING IN EXPERTS WHO SAID HOW LONG GERMS COULD STAY ON PAPER.

THEY PROVIDED US WITH RESOURCES ON HOW TO TREAT OUR MATERIALS WHEN THEY CAME BACK, HOW TO ISOLATE MATERIALS.

WE DIDN'T HEAR MUCH OF THAT COMING FROM THE CDC.

THEY WERE MORE CONCERNED WITH THE FACE MASKS.

BUT THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION WAS STILL CONCERNED WITH PEOPLE, AND APLS WAS CONCERNED WITH OUR LIBRARIES BEING ABLE TO CONTINUE TO OPERATE AND PROVIDE SERVICES TO OUR PATRONS BECAUSE WE KNEW HOW VALUABLE THEY WERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE THINGS THAT THEY DID DURING COVID WITH HAVING -- TELLING US EXAMPLES AND HAVING EXPERTS TALK ABOUT ISOLATE THE BOOKS FOR THIS LONG, OR YOU CAN PUT BOOKS INTO A MICRO WAVE AND IT WILL KILL THE GERMS, AND THINGS LIKE THAT, AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF DIFFERENT TYPES OF SERVICES THAT WERE CREATED HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED TODAY, YOU KNOW.

>> WHAT ABOUT CONTENT, THOUGH?

DOES THAT PLAY A ROLE IN COMMUNICATING WITH WHETHER IT'S A STATE LIBRARY SERVICE OR A LOCAL LIBRARIES ABOUT WHAT CONTENT, YOU KNOW, NEEDS TO BE OUT THERE OR -- >> NO, THEY HAVE NO SAY-SO IN WHAT YOU COLLECT.

IT GOES PACK TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY -- BACK TO YOUR LOCAL COMMUNITY.

THEY -- YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE READING LISTS, THEY HAVE TOOLS TO WORK WITH DIFFERENT THINGS, LIKE THE MOST RECENT THING THEY CAME OUT WITH WAS KNOWING YOUR MONEY AND FINANCES, AND IT WAS FOR TEACHING PEOPLE WHO WERE UNDERSERVED HOW TO TEACH SAVING MONEY AND LOOK INTO INVESTING AND HOW TO SAVE YOUR MONEY.

ALA DOESN'T HAVE THE POWER TO GO OUT AND SAY YOU NEED THIS BOOK IN YOUR LIBRARY, AND THEY DO NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO SEND THE BOOK TO THE LIBRARY, NOR DOES APLS HAVE THE MONEY TO SAY, OKAY, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS BOOK.

FOR EXAMPLE, DURING THE BY CENTENNIAL, WE HAD A LOT OF ALABAMA HISTORY PUBLISHED.

APLS SENT EVERY LIBRARY COPIES OF BOOKS WE PURCHASED SO THEY WOULD HAVE A HISTORY RECORDED DURING THE BICENTENNIAL.

NOW, WE SAID IN OUR LETTER WE'RE SENDING THIS TO YOU AND YOU HAVE THE CHOICE TO PUT IT IN YOUR COLLECTION OR TO GIVE IT TO SOMEBODY ELSE.

AND THEY MAKE THAT DECISION AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

>> I SEE.

>> SO ALA DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO TELL YOU WHAT TO DO.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING SO MUCH ABOUT LITERACY, AND THERE'S A RENEWED FOCUS ON LITERACY IN THE STATE AND GETTING OUR READING SCORES UP, SO WE REALLY NEED TO HAVE THE LIBRARY SERVICE AND OUR LOCAL PUBLIC LIBRARIES.

AND, SO, WHAT WOULD YOUR MESSAGE BE TO THOSE LOCAL COMMUNITIES, PARENTS WHO, IF YOU HAVE CONCERNS, IT'S ON THE LOCAL LEVEL, RIGHT?

IS THAT THE MESSAGE THAT, YOU KNOW, ENGAGE LOCALLY, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A STATE OR A NATIONAL ISSUE?

>> IT IS A NATIONAL ISSUE BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN MADE A NATIONAL ISSUE.

BUT IT GETS DOWN TO PARENT INVOLVEMENT.

THE ALABAMA PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE BECAME AWARE OF REIMAGINING READING READY -- SCHOOL READINESS AND WE HAVE WORKED FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN RESOURCES IN ALABAMA, AND THE DEPARTMENT OF EARLY EDUCATION IN ALABAMA, AND WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DOING IS GOING IN AND TRAINING OUR USED SERVICES LIBRARIANS HOW TO INCORPORATE LITERACY WITH CHILDREN'S STORY TIMES AND CONCEPTS, LIKE YOU MIGHT HAVE A STACK OF BOOKS OVER HERE, AND YOU WILL SAY WHICH BOOK IS MORE OR LESS?

WE ALSO HAVE A PIECE OF THAT PROGRAM THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH THAT WE HAVE PARENTS ENGAGING WITH CHILDREN AT HOME.

>> THAT'S SO IMPORTANT.

>> AND, SO, YOU KNOW, BUT THAT IS A LOCAL DECISION, IF THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR READING READINESS PROGRAM.

WE'VE TRAINED 90 LIBRARIES OUT OF 205 ON HOW TO USE THESE TOOLS AND RESOURCES, AND WE'VE GIVEN THEM -- APLS HAS BOUGHT KITS TO GO WITH THE MATERIAL, WITH THE TRAINING SUCH AS PUZZLES FOR PEOPLE TO WORK TOGETHER ON, BOOKS THEY CAN READ WITH THEIR CHILDREN, AND TO ENGAGE PARENT AND CHILDREN READING TOGETHER AND BEING MORE ACTIVE.

AND I THINK THAT IS THE KEY.

WE NEED PARENTAL ACTIVITY WITH THE CHILDREN AND ENGAGING WITH THEIR CHILDREN, GETTING TO KNOW THEIR CHILDREN, AND DECIDING ON WHAT THE NEEDS OF THEIR CHILDREN ARE.

>> OH, YES, ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S SO IMPORTANT.

AND, AGAIN, I GREW UP IN THE LIBRARY.

>> RIGHT.

>> I CAN SMELL IT STILL TO THIS DAY, AND STORY TIME WAS A BIG DEAL.

AND, SO, I CAN'T ENCOURAGE PEOPLE ENOUGH TO VISIT THEIR LOCAL LIBRARY AND ENGAGE.

SOMETIMES THESE ISSUES GET FRAUGHT POLITICALLY AND DUSTUPS.

BUT I'M REALLY GRATEFUL FOR YOU TO COME ON AND EXPLAIN THE TRUTH ABOUT THE MATTER AND HOW THE PUBLIC LIBRARY SERVICE WORKS AND HOW MOST OF THESE THINGS ARE HANDLED AT A LOCAL LEVEL.

I APPRECIATE YOU COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> I WANT TO REITERATE APLS' MISSION IS TO ENHANCE LIBRARIES, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT STATE FUNDING AND BUDGET.

IF YOU HAVE TIME, I'D LIKE TO EXPLAIN HOW APLS USES STATE FUNDS.

>> SURE.

>> UP UNTIL 1980, PUBLIC LIBRARIES DID NOT RECEIVE STATE AID.

WE HAVE WORKED FROM BRINGING STATE AID UP FROM 30 CENTS TO $1.30 PER CAPITA FOR LIBRARIES.

OUR LIBRARIES THAT ARE SMALL LIBRARIES UNDER 50,000 USE THAT MONEY TO SUPPORT PAYING ELECTRIC BILLS, BUYING BOOKS FOR THEIR COLLECTION BECAUSE THEIR COMMUNITIES' TAXES DO NOT PROVIDE ENOUGH MONEY TO SUPPORT THEM IN REALLY OPERATING A LIBRARY.

SO, WHEN IT COMES TO STATE AID, EACH LIBRARY USES IT DIFFERENTLY, AND THEY REPORT BACK TO ME ON HOW THE STATE AID BENEFITED THEIR COMMUNITY.

SO THAT DIRECTLY GOES TO LIBRARY, AND IT SERVES AS OUR COMMITMENT AND OUR MATCH TO FEDERAL DOLLARS.

WHEN WE SAY THAT WE HAVE TO MATCH WITH OUR FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT WE GET THROUGH THE INSTITUTE OF MUSEUM AND LIBRARIES.

NOW, WHEN YOU GET DOWN TO THE APLS BUDGET, WE USUALLY HAVE AN OPERATING BUDGET, WHICH IS MINIMAL.

WE HAVE 35 STAFF MEMBERS WORKING WITH US, WHEN APLS USED TO HAVE 100 AND THEY USED TO BUY BOOKS FOR ALL THE LIBRARIES, BUT WE CUT OUT DOING THAT COLLECTION DEVELOPMENT IN 1979, WHEN THE LEGISLATORS QUIT FUNDING US AT THAT LEVEL.

WE ALSO GET MONEY AND WE USE SOME OF THE STATE MONEY, WE HAVE FOUR DATABASES THAT WE BUY THAT ANYBODY IN ALABAMA CAN ACCESS THOSE DATABASES.

THAT IS HOMEWORK ALABAMA WHICH IS A TUTORING PROGRAM, AND IT PROVIDES TEST MANUALS FOR ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO GO BACK AND LEARN -- LIKE IF YOU'RE APPLYING A JOB AND YOU'RE RUSTY IN MATH AND YOU FORGET ALGEBRA, AND YOU HAVE TO USE THAT, YOU CAN'T USE THE COMPUTER.

YOU COULD HAVE A TUTOR HELP YOU WITH GEOMETRY AND REFRESH YOU ON THINGS.

ALSO, IF YOU'RE REQUIRED TO GET A G.E.D.

AND YOU DROPPED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, WITHIN THAT HOMEWORK ALABAMA DATABASE, WE HAVE RESOURCES THAT WILL ASSIST YOU IN GETTING YOUR GED PRACTICE TEST.

ALSO TWO OF OUR DATABASES, LEARNING SKILLS AND HOMEWORK ALABAMA, SUPPORT THE WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT IN HELPING THEM WRITE RESUMES AND HELPING THEM WITH INTERVIEWING PROCESSES AND THAT KIND OF THING.

AND THEN "CHILTON REPAIR," IT'S PROBABLY FOR PERSONAL GROWTH.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU REMEMBER THE BIG CHILTON BOOKS IN THE LIBRARY AND YOU WOULD LOOK AND LEARN HOW TO CHANGE YOUR CAR'S OIL FROM THAT, IT IS ONLINE AND YOU CAN USE THAT IN LOOKING AT YOUR CAR AND WORKING ON IT.

THAT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE BECAUSE A LOT OF ALABAMIANS CAN'T AFFORD THE NEW CARS.

IN THE BACK OF THAT, THERE ARE TESTS AND STANDARDS THAT HELP YOU BECOME A MECHANIC FOR A MECHANICAL CERTIFICATION.

THE OTHER DATABASE WE HAVE IS AN ISSUE OF ANCESTRY.COM FOR THE LIBRARY EDITION.

AND YOU HAVE TO USE THAT AS YOUR PUBLIC LIBRARY BECAUSE ANCESTRY DOESN'T ALLOW US TO PROVIDE IT FROM YOUR HOME ACCESS.

BUT OF THOSE THREE DATABASES I'VE DISCUSSED, YOU CAN ACCESS THOSE ANYWHERE AND FIND MATERIALS ON ALL TYPES OF THINGS.

>> A WORLD AT YOUR FINGERTIPS.

>> EXACTLY.

>> WHO DO I SEE ABOUT GETTING MY LIBRARY CARD RENEWED?

DO I SEE YOU?

>> WELL, IF YOU ARE A STATE EMPLOYEE, YOU HAVE ACCESS TO COME IN AND USE OUR RESOURCES AT THE AGENCY, BUT WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO FIND IS WE HAVE OUR DATABASES UP, AND OUR REFERENCE STAFF CAN HELP YOU WITH THAT.

OR YOU CAN ASK THEM TO INTERLIBRARY LOAN YOU A BOOK, AS A STATE AGENCY WE'LL DO THAT.

OUR COLLECTION IS MINIMAL.

THE ONE THING WE DO NO OTHER AGENCY IN ALABAMA DOES IS WE COLLECT TWO COPIES OF ALABAMA AUTHORS.

AND WE HAVE AUTHORS GOING BACK TO 1903, TWO COPIES OF THEIR BOOKS.

AND WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE BOOKS THAT'S ON THE CENSOR LIST, ALASKA, THAT IS WRITTEN BY AN ALABAMA AUTHOR, AND WE HAVE TWO COPIES OF THAT BOOK IN OUR COLLECTION.

AND OTHER THAN THAT, WE DON'T HAVE CHILDREN'S BOOKS, UNLESS THEY ARE WRITTEN BY AN ALABAMA AUTHOR.

SO WE CAN PROVIDE YOU WITH ALABAMA AUTHORS, AND THE ARCHIVES CANNOT PROVIDE YOU WITH THEM, BUT WE CAN.

>> OKAY.

YEAH, ALWAYS ENJOY GOING TO THE BOOK FESTIVAL HERE IN MONTGOMERY BECAUSE IT FEATURES ALABAMA AUTHORS.

OUT OF TIME, DR.

PACK, BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON THE SHOW AND EXPLAINING SOME OF THIS.

>> THANK YOU.

WE HOPE THAT THINGS WILL BE RESOLVED AND THAT OUR PATRONS WHO VISIT LIBRARIES, THAT SOMETHING CAN BE WORKED OUT AND WE CAN CONTINUE -- THAT LIBRARIES CAN CONTINUE TO BE VITAL IN THEIR COMMUNITIES AND PROVIDE THE RESOURCES THAT ARE NEEDED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S WHAT WE WANTED TO HAVE YOU OWN.

THANKS AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR THIS WEEK.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK AT THE SAME TIME WITH MORE "CAPITOL JOURNAL" RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

FOR OUR "CAPITOL JOURNAL" TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.